Gameplay music

[Telaron]

Sorry about not posting guys. I've been out with the flu for a while. I'll see if I can't fix the violins today and post the (wav?) file.

Alright here's the edited wav file named TFTF.
Terror from the Forest

[Trilby]

Hi Telaron, this file is very large. Would you be able to provide us with an .ogg version; the music format used in game?

[Telaron]

No, sorry. I don't have an audio converter that converts to ogg. I usually only ever use mp3. I'll have to let West convert it to ogg.

Which reminds me, I have $50 to spend...

Thanks Trilby.

[West]

You don't need to pay for an ogg converter, it's an free and open format.

I'm going to have a listen to this new version and see if we can consider it for inclusion in the game.I'm sorry Telaron, this piece is going to need a considerable amount of work before we can use it. The first version you posted sounded very promising but I don't hear any real improvements in this new one.

First of all, I've told you before to use midi CC#11 (Expression) curves on sustained parts to make them sound less static. A violin note that goes SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE for several seconds is not pretty. If you don't know how to use CC#11, make an effort to find out. Check your DAW's manual, or google it. It's one of the fundamentals of working with midi and you MUST learn how to use it.

Secondly, there's no real structure to the piece. It just moves linearly through a few seemingly unrelated parts. You need to work harder on making your compositions flow. You need to establish a theme, then return to it once or twice to give the piece a sense of wholeness. Among other things. Don't just write stuff off the top of your head and think it's a composition, because it isn't. It's just random bits of music in sequence.

Thirdly, you seem to be afraid of harmony. There's mostly monophonic lines and bass notes which gets a little dull after a while. It's especially evident at the end, when one of my themes show up. It's just octaves!

Fourthly, you should use more instruments than just strings.

Having said all that, I love the part at 0:52, I think you should explore that idea further.


Right now, this is not up to the standards I have in mind for the game.

[fusion44]

You can use videolan player to ogg.

[West]

Attempting to get out of my rut, here's some additional music for the tutorial:

Windclaw's Lair

Very rough, very sloppy. Let me know what you think.

[Trilby]

I think it does lack the potency of the earlier pieces you've created for Sumwars, but otherwise I think this could become a good soundtrack piece. Although I'm not sure if the overall tone of the piece may sound a little too whimsical, particularly the first half.

This may sound like a criticism of the appropriateness of soundtrack style, but I don't believe this necessarily means whimsey isn't the preferable choice. However, it does lead me onto a related concern about establishing what the consistent theme/ambiance for the story should be.

Please do split this into a separate topic from the music forum, if you don't want it here. Full discussion is better served in a separate forum thread, and I certainly don't want to get on anybody's nerves with anything I say, but it seems appropriate to bring this up now.

I've never been quite certain about what tone the story in Sumwars has wanted to set, overall. There is a great deal of back-chat, irreverence and in-game jokes throughout most dialogue. Windclaw's guards seem to set a comic introduction to the game. Yet the types of characters the players are in control of i.e Branded-ones, info about Harad and the overall plot involving Necromancers etc. Even establishing Windclaw himself, it all seems very dark by comparison.

I would have difficulty knowing what type of soundtrack/composition would be appropriate in these situations. Or, if many of the in-jokes etc, might even undermine the atmosphere of the game, considering the warlike and soul-saving details of the story so far. Generally, I have no problem with mixing humour and a serious story, but I do believe further refinement is needed to keep consistency.

I suppose I just wanted to know what other peoples opinions on this topic were?

[kalimgard]

hm... it sounds good, but I think it's too fast, especially the first 40 seconds. They give it a "wannabe wizard" atmosphere, and honestly, you can say a lot about Windclaw, but he is no wannabe.

[West]

I think it does lack the potency of the earlier pieces you've created for Sumwars

Tell me about it

Although I'm not sure if the overall tone of the piece may sound a little too whimsical, particularly the first half.

Without going into your discussion about style, the whimsicalness was definitely intentional as the tutorial does have a feeling of dark comedy. I figured a sort of Elfmanesque sound might be fitting, but I'm not sure.

hm... it sounds good, but I think it's too fast, especially the first 40 seconds. They give it a "wannabe wizard" atmosphere, and honestly, you can say a lot about Windclaw, but he is no wannabe.

Fast? It feels lumbering rather than fast to me -- the present music used in the tutorial is much faster. I also intended this for the first part of the tutorial, chatting with the guards, killing slugs etc. When the protagonist reaches Windclaw's chamber, I'm all for switching to slower and more ominous music.

[KroArtem]

The beginning of this track reminds me Fable a lot
I really like practically all the track, may be only some seconds after 0:40 doesn't sound good for me
In general: it rocks! Continue improving this track and make it a bit longer.

[Dratz-_C]

In general, I think that this game could use a broad spectrum of music to fit particular situations. I feel that a clarinet part could add some texture and interplay. Some occasional harp arpeggios might accentuate transitions or points at key places in the piece, similar to what one might use a reverse cymbal for. As usual, I am not very good at suggesting appropriate percussion. What do you think of these ideas, West? I think the wannabes are the guards and the player-character. From my limited experience with Windclaw in playing the game I do agree about switching to the ominous music when the player reaches the chamber.
Cheers

[West]

A little update. No big surprises but it's a bit more interesting now, and a bit less sloppy

[KroArtem]

Cool, now it is long enough, add +20-25 seconds and this will be really _enough_ to add windclaws_lair to the game
It doesn't sound annoying or irritating.

[Dratz-_C]

I think you are making the motif progress, grabbing my attention. I believe you have added character and consistency in seconds 58-68 with your new lyrical bassoon part and triplets. I also feel that you are doing a good job intimating the importance of the story with the triangle, marimba, timpani, descending bar chime?, and harp parts. I like that you have introduced an element of concern in seconds 68-97 with the pensive tambourine and strings, descending clarinet, and sombre French horn dyads. I will have to think some more about what you might do to finish the piece to KroArtem's (and anyone elses?) satisfaction.
Cheers

[Trilby]

There is some lovely work here. I agree with Dratz-C that there is a fine sense of gravitas in the latter parts of the piece. However I'm still of the the opinion the the first section, up to 40 or so secs seems somewhat at odds with the atmosphere needed for the story. As it is now I find it sounds too much on the whimsical side. Everything else fits wonderfully, I will add (raised the hairs on my arms).

I wired this track into the tutorial section of the game, and gave it a play, just to see how the first section might fit. Actually, for the most part, the whole of the composition worked well for the Tolec and Derred's dialogue. However, it threw in some odd moments, such as making the attack of giant monster and subsequent deaths of the slaves seem inappropriately comic. Admittedly, these in game instances will probably merit their own parts of the soundtrack in time. As it stands now, that first 40 sec section probably doesn't fit as well as the current "treacherous_paths" piece does overall.