Summoning Wars Forum

Development => Sound & Music => Topic started by: West on July 16, 2010, 03:40:49 PM

Title: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 16, 2010, 03:40:49 PM
Yay, progress! Here's a first shot at some generic overland gameplay music:

Imminent Danger (http://www.box.net/shared/meh6kpi5hg)

I know it may not be extremely dangerous-sounding but I figured we should save the really dark and threatening music for dungeons and caves.

This is far from finished, in fact I only started working on it a couple of days ago, so please disregard the incomplete melodies, bad or non-existant transitions etc.

Other than that, let me know what you think!

Edit: I always boost the track level a bit before posting but I forgot to this time, so the piece probably peaks around -10dB or something. However I'm fairly sure all of you have a volume knob on your speakers :)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: CheeseLord on July 16, 2010, 07:25:51 PM
Sweet!! I really like the feeling of exploration that you get from this.
Even though you know about transitions, I'll just point out a few things you probably, but might not have noticed ;)
- The later sections when it gets into swing sound really loud and a little out of place when compared to the start...maybe think of turning it down a little.
- The flute at 0:26 suffers from the loopy CD problem with sustained notes
- The start should gradually get a little fuller, not suddenly adding a ton in (yes, I know you know about this, but meh...oops)

But apart from that, it's pretty awesome...where was that pan flute like articulation from?? :D
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 17, 2010, 01:03:19 PM
Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='593' dateline='1279304751'
- The later sections when it gets into swing sound really loud and a little out of place when compared to the start...maybe think of turning it down a little.


Why? I mean sure, the dynamics need a LOT of work, I haven't really paid much attention to it yet, but is there some particular reason you think the loudness should be uniform? When the strings come in during the oriental-tinged part (~1:09), it's *supposed* to get a little bigger and bolder.

Not saying you don't have a point or anything, just wondering why you felt it was out of place.

Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='593' dateline='1279304751'
- The flute at 0:26 suffers from the loopy CD problem with sustained notes


Actually it doesn't, it's real unlooped sustain samples, but I see what you mean. The vibrato has a kind of nervous quality to it. I've replaced it with an alto flute instead, as I also felt that a slightly huskier tone was called for.

Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='593' dateline='1279304751'
- The start should gradually get a little fuller, not suddenly adding a ton in (yes, I know you know about this, but meh...oops)


Horns, solo flute and some sparse pizz notes is "a ton"? :o Or do you mean the percussion?

Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='593' dateline='1279304751'
But apart from that, it's pretty awesome...where was that pan flute like articulation from?? :D


Thanks, glad you like it!

The flute FX is from ProjectSAM, can't recall the name of the file off the top of my head.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 17, 2010, 09:47:27 PM
An update (http://www.box.net/shared/meh6kpi5hg)

I know it's very short but I don't think it's a good idea keeping up that loop-driven rhythm for much longer than a couple of minutes. So I'm going to just let the rhythmic part end and then continue with something very slow and sparse and rubato (though of course reprising some chords and melodies from the first part). You know, some cinematic landscape of detached phrases fading in and out.

That way we can loop the whole tune if needed without it sounding mindlessly repetitive.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on July 18, 2010, 07:35:33 PM
I also found time to listen to it now and have to say, very nice work (as always). For me, this seems the right music for the early regions, that are not too dangerous. Although the music fits to a region with some fights, its still a rather friendly athmosphere in my opinion (so imminent is a bit exaggerated ). Mysterious is another adjectiv that came into my mind while listening.

By the way, I have posted some guide how to test music ingame. If you convert the file to .ogg, you can easily try it out ingame. This way you can try out, if the music *fits*. The game automatically loop the soundfile, so the question if looping sounds good or not is automatically examined too ^^
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 20, 2010, 10:37:18 PM
Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='601' dateline='1279478133'

I also found time to listen to it now and have to say, very nice work (as always).


Thanks!

Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='601' dateline='1279478133'
For me, this seems the right music for the early regions, that are not too dangerous. Although the music fits to a region with some fights, its still a rather friendly athmosphere in my opinion (so imminent is a bit exaggerated ).


Yes, you're right. When I started working on it it felt much more scary, now that I've digested it for a few days it sounds different. Almost jazzy in places (which is scary in a way, I suppose :P) and not overly threatening. I still think it's good generic gameplay music though. We can't have only dark, dissonant, scary music.

Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='601' dateline='1279478133'
Mysterious is another adjectiv that came into my mind while listening.


I definitely see what you mean. Harry Potter is two words that came into my mind. There is something with that descending chromatic melody that makes me think of Harry Potter, especially when the strings are playing it. Have I borrowed something again?

Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='601' dateline='1279478133'
By the way, I have posted some guide how to test music ingame. If you convert the file to .ogg, you can easily try it out ingame. This way you can try out, if the music *fits*. The game automatically loop the soundfile, so the question if looping sounds good or not is automatically examined too ^^


Yup, you told me all about that over IRC a while back. Very nifty, but I still think it's easier just loading the tracks I want to audition into Foobar and having it run in the background while I'm playing ;)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 22, 2010, 10:03:01 PM
Updated version (http://www.box.net/shared/meh6kpi5hg). I'm not sure what's changed since last time, I've tinkered with it on and off so I don't quite remember :)

Also, here's something (http://www.box.net/shared/258jrvv8oo) I've been working on in parallell. As mentioned I was going to string the two pieces together, but for several reasons I think it might be better to keep them separate. This is a slower, darker tune in the same key and with some variations on stuff in the first part.

Neither piece is finished yet, just keeping you posted.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: hal9000 on July 23, 2010, 05:24:09 PM
Quote from: 'West' pid='632' dateline='1279832581'

..also, here's something (http://www.box.net/shared/258jrvv8oo) I've been working on in parallell..


yeah this one gives me a more "imminent danger" feeling..really nice work
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 24, 2010, 09:27:24 AM
Quote from: 'hal9000' pid='639' dateline='1279902249'
yeah this one gives me a more "imminent danger" feeling..really nice work


Thanks hal9000. And yeah, this tune is definitely more dangerous-sounding. I'm going to have to rethink the title of both pieces though.

Updated version of Imminent Danger II (http://www.box.net/shared/258jrvv8oo)

Structurally, it's finished. In terms of dynamics, mixing and a myriad other details, a lot of work still remains.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: kalimgard on July 27, 2010, 06:53:17 PM
I'm back from learn-for-exams-land and was just listening to the two tracks. They both give me kind of an oriental feeling.

If the first one was ready this moment, I'd play it in the council dungeon from the tutorial. I agree it is good for the first regions, and regions deemed "less dangerous" in general.

The second... well, to me it sounds like the aftermath of something terrible. Like coming home and finding your village burnt - danger looming over you, but nothing physicaly there.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on July 31, 2010, 11:32:07 PM
Quote from: 'kalimgard' pid='652' dateline='1280253197'

They both give me kind of an oriental feeling.


Yes, the melodies and progressions do have a slight oriental feel, which was not entirely intentional. Meaning, I didn't write those themes with the intention of making something oriental-sounding, but when it did turn out that way I didn't go out of my way trying to change it as I liked the mysterious feel.

Technically it's not oriental though. AFAIK I'm not using any typical oriental scales, it's all very modal and floating. I think the oriental feel comes from the slightly odd chord progressions and chromatic melodies. We westerners usually associate such things with "oriental" music :)

Quote from: 'kalimgard' pid='652' dateline='1280253197'
The second... well, to me it sounds like the aftermath of something terrible. Like coming home and finding your village burnt - danger looming over you, but nothing physicaly there.


Nice interpretation! I didn't have something quite that specific in mind when writing it, but you're absolutely right that it would work great for such a scene.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on August 08, 2010, 05:08:55 PM
I've listened to both these, and others. The theme you've created for Sumwars,  refrains strongly here without crowding the separate compositions, which is fantastic. The work feels to have a narrative quality (Peer Gynt et al).  I'd feel at home listening to these pieces away from the game just as much I would during play and knit well together. I don't really have much to add besides that this work is really gripping.

I would agree with Kalimgaard, that first would work excellently for the tutorial. I feel it has the right pace and unsettling quirkiness that matches the environment for "Windpaw's" abode.

The second, I don't picture as being quite so traumatic as has been suggested, but has a clear forboding/enchanted quality. It actually puts me in mind of Danny Elfman (Or more specifically his music :P) And would work well for the journey into the Goblin infested wildernesses.

I look forward to listening to the progression on the main theme as well, to match development of these.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on August 08, 2010, 09:55:04 PM
Today I took some time for actually playing the game (I intended to work on it, but somehow got stuck with *playtesting*). One thing I noticed when entering the first region with music was, that the improvement in athmosphere is enourmous. On the other hand, the lack of music after moving to a region without any music again was horrible. At the moment we have only one piece of music (Dark_Exploration) but somehow I still did not experience it as very repetitive. One reason might be, that most region have no music, so if there is music, its always a positive contrast. By the way, Dark_Exploration really fits for caves.

Based on this experience I propose, that we assign each region some music as soon as we have two or three different pieces. I know, that this might not always meet you expectations in diversity and how good the music *fits*. But after this experience I am convinced that as soon as we have some regions with music, having some without is really not a good idea. We can still replace music pieces or extend the track lists later.

By the way, another negative aspect was: As soon as you have music, the missing sounds are even more noticable. If the programs produces some acoustical output, you intuitively just expect, that you can hear the spells and kills and so on. Its no big problem but rather natural, that good content in one area calls attention to the gaps in another one...
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 10, 2010, 04:33:42 PM
Trilby: Thanks, I'm glad you like the music! You're actually not the first one to mention Danny Elfman when hearing my stuff, and I definitely take it as a compliment. Can't say I've listened actively to any of his work but being a Burton fan (or, well, used to be) I have certainly been exposed to his music a lot.

Lastmerlin: I would definitely be willing to add one piece of music for each region as soon as we have a few tracks reaqdy. You're absolutely right that once one region has music, the following needs to have music too or the atmosphere will go poof. Give me a week or so to wrap up the stuff I'm working on, and I'll have at least three pieces to put in the game (not counting the main menu music). Or maybe even four:

Stand Your Ground (http://www.box.net/shared/ozkf9yv3ss) is a new tune I started working on yesterday. Maybe it's a bit too dramatic to be used as general gameplay music -- perhaps it's more suitable for a boss fight? As always when I post something new, this is very rough. The intro is a big "dunno" and the timing of the following part is abysmal. Just curious to hear what you think of it.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I have also updated the other tunes (mainly just mix edits) and renamed some of them. "Imminent Danger I" is now called "Treacherous Paths" and "Imminent Danger II" is called "Tread Lightly", the names chosen to reflect the relation between the pieces. "Lament" is now called "Main Title". Just a heads-up to avoid confusion.

If anyone can think of a better title for Stand Your Ground, be my guest.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on August 10, 2010, 10:05:34 PM
"Stand your Ground" sounds pretty fun so far. The bombastic part immediately came across as more of a Superhero's soundtrack. Personally I like that though. :angel:

I think you're right, that the piece would find a home in some heroic deed, a boss fight or a specific combative plot event.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 10, 2010, 10:23:00 PM
Quote from: 'Trilby' pid='717' dateline='1281474334'

"Stand your Ground" sounds pretty fun so far. The bombastic part immediately came across as more of a Superhero's soundtrack. Personally I like that though. :angel:


Hmm, yeah. I see how you you might make that connection, considering the action flick percussion.

Quote from: 'Trilby' pid='717' dateline='1281474334'
I think you're right, that the piece would find a home in some heroic deed, a boss fight or a specific combative plot event.


Yup. I haven't tried it ingame yet though. If anyone does, please report if there's some special part of the storyline where it would fit. Alas, I need to find time to sit down and play through the entire game -- or the completed part more correctly. I'm embarassed to say I haven't, yet. Right now it's either play the game or write music. I've prioritized the latter as we really do need music for the next release.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 11, 2010, 02:43:13 PM
Stand Your Ground has been updated, same link as before.

Still not clear on the intro but I've polished the rest up a bit.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: kalimgard on August 12, 2010, 10:39:14 AM
I haven't tried it out ingame, but I think it would be good to have for bossfights like the lich. Especially if the "intro" part and the rest were seperate, so that it could be played during the "party and boss talk stuff before killing each other" time.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 12, 2010, 02:58:55 PM
Quote from: 'kalimgard' pid='725' dateline='1281605954'

I haven't tried it out ingame, but I think it would be good to have for bossfights like the lich. Especially if the "intro" part and the rest were seperate, so that it could be played during the "party and boss talk stuff before killing each other" time.


Making the intro separate would not technically be a problem. What I'm wondering is what it sounds like when a track is playing and a new one is triggered. Can we do crossfades or will the first track just end abruptly?

Anyway, another update (http://www.box.net/shared/ozkf9yv3ss). The new stuff is sketchy and sloppy but right now I'm focusing on getting the parts down, I will go back and tidy things up later.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on August 12, 2010, 03:02:12 PM
This composition has taken a sinister twist, I like it. I can see it fitting better with the other pieces now the intro has had some development.

I think the Lich could be your man. I've not seen this scene in action yet myself, but it sounds to be deserving of it's own piece. If the scene involves dialogue followed by a fight, there's more scope for the soundtrack, the whole scene can be given treatment, as it's not strictly speaking the same as combat music kicking in for a lesser boss (which I agree would be irksome considering the structure of the game).

Developing a looping version of the intro for the dialogue, could be useful as the talking is going to vary in length for different players, especially when the option for dialogue speed is introduced. So having the full run through of the track before action starts may want to be avoided.
If this route were followed, would it be easy to have that short "intro" play to it's end once dialogue is finished --and only then start play on the fight section of the composition? It would be awful if by cutting the piece up into separate tracks, either piece should jump tracks to the other in the middle of it's run through.

I should say only do this if it's easy and unobtrusive, and should let all music run to it's end before changing.

Ninja'd, doh
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 12, 2010, 08:09:44 PM
Second update (http://www.box.net/shared/ozkf9yv3ss) in one day, I think I'm on a roll here :) Past the 2 minute mark now, not sure how long to make it but I'll keep at it until I run out of ideas.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 16, 2010, 02:23:35 PM
Stand your ground has been updated (http://www.box.net/shared/ozkf9yv3ss) again. I'm not really happy with anything that happens after 2 minutes (especially not the way the "main theme goes imperial march" part just jumps over into some classical-sounding passage) so I'm thinking of letting the piece end just before that.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: fusion44 on August 16, 2010, 05:15:06 PM
I think this sounds awesome. You could also try and make each section of the music last a bit longer. I feel they change to fast.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 16, 2010, 09:39:34 PM
Quote from: 'fusion44' pid='735' dateline='1281975306'

I think this sounds awesome. You could also try and make each section of the music last a bit longer. I feel they change to fast.


Thanks! As for the parts changing too fast, I must say that I think the first two minutes are pretty good in terms of pacing and structure. It's an action piece, there's supposed to be a lot of things happening. Repeating stuff over and over just doesn't work IMO. It's meant to be a bit tumultuous. That said, everything after two minutes is a mess.

Anyway, here's some scary music for ya (http://www.box.net/shared/vistiz0ppv). It could use some percussion here and there but other than that I think it works surprisingly well despite its simplicity. Try it on an underground region!

(And in case you're wondering, yes, I used synths for this tune.)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: kalimgard on August 19, 2010, 01:55:24 PM
that would be good to have to create a bit of diversity in cave-music
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on August 23, 2010, 09:37:45 PM
By the way, didnt you promise to post some completed music after the weekend :P
However, no haste, we are still waiting for the network stuff...
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 23, 2010, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='763' dateline='1282595865'

By the way, didnt you promise to post some completed music after the weekend :P
However, no haste, we are still waiting for the network stuff...


Yes I did, but I did also see your post about the release being delayed so I opted for not working my ass off :)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on August 24, 2010, 05:22:30 AM
http://www.mediafire.com/?e0bbki75bm35px4
Here is the beginnings of some gameplay music I am composing. The ending is a bit monotonous, but I figured I'd go ahead and post it. If others agree, I could fix that ending part. (BTW, it isn't the real ending of the song. Just as far as I have gotten.):)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on August 24, 2010, 07:06:19 AM
Well working your ass off is never an advisable option as I could imagine it to be rather painful (a real PITA to be precise) :D
However, delay will be over soon, now that the wrapper made by trapdoor is complete. Is completing the music pieces in question by end of the week realistic ?
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on August 24, 2010, 10:59:43 AM
Quote from: 'Lastmerlin' pid='770' dateline='1282629979'
Is completing the music pieces in question by end of the week realistic ?


It is. Actually I need to post the tunes *before* the weekend as I'm moving to a new apartment on saturday and I won't have any internet access until September 1st (it'll be a traumatizing experience no doubt).
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on October 17, 2010, 04:35:21 AM
I wrote this piece for the game, but I'm not sure if it fits in or not.:s

http://opengameart.org/content/terror-from-the-forest
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on October 17, 2010, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: 'Telaron' pid='1025' dateline='1287286521'

I wrote this piece for the game, but I'm not sure if it fits in or not.:s

http://opengameart.org/content/terror-from-the-forest



Excellent stuff Telaron! I like it and it definitely fits the game. I think the sustained strings could use some cc#11 to make them sound a bit less static, but other than it's really good. Too short though, you think you could make it maybe a minute longer?

Also, if you're going to submit pieces for possible inclusion in sumwars, please don't post them on places like opengameart first. We're going for an original soundtrack here and I would prefer if the music hasn't been used in other projects before being included in sumwars.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on October 18, 2010, 01:30:31 PM
Thanks West.:)

Sorry about posting on opengameart. I need to upload it from another site, because the sumwars forum wouldn't allow such a large file.

Hmm, another minute. I'll try West. I still haven't broken 1:40 on my compositions, but we'll see...:D

BTW, would you like me to remove it form OGA?
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on October 20, 2010, 05:26:21 PM
Quote from: 'Telaron' pid='1027' dateline='1287405031'
Thanks West.:)

Sorry about posting on opengameart. I need to upload it from another site, because the sumwars forum wouldn't allow such a large file.

Hmm, another minute. I'll try West. I still haven't broken 1:40 on my compositions, but we'll see...:D

BTW, would you like me to remove it form OGA?

No, you don't have to remove the current version but if I say yes, well use this, I'm going to have to ask you not to upload any newer versions to opengameart until the piece is included in sumwars. Sorry if this seems silly but I really want this game to have a unique soundtrack and not just a playlist of random, unrelated pieces that have been used and re-used in a dozen other projects. Obviously you don't have to go along with this if you don't want to, it's your choice. But be aware that this is a requirement for getting a piece in the game.

Speaking of requirements, IIRC I told you regarding some other piece that all music needs to feature some theme from the game. As far as I can tell this one does not, so there's an idea for that extra minute: try to come up with a variation on a sumwars theme and weave it into the composition.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on November 05, 2010, 01:39:02 PM
Terror from the Forest (http://www.mediafire.com/?thhw6o9384iq46y)

Alright, I made it over the two minute mark.:)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: CheeseLord on November 14, 2010, 10:42:59 AM
Telaron: That link seems to be broken...perhaps you need the 'shared' link?? ;)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on November 17, 2010, 03:27:29 PM
Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='1120' dateline='1289727779'

Telaron: That link seems to be broken...perhaps you need the 'shared' link?? ;)


Sorry, every time Mediafire logs me out, the link stops working.

Terror from the Forest (http://www.mediafire.com/?thhw6o9384iq46y)

Anyone know of a good file sharing site that that is free?
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on November 17, 2010, 07:38:44 PM
Quote from: 'Telaron' pid='1122' dateline='1290004049'
Anyone know of a good file sharing site that that is free?


box.net
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Andreas on November 24, 2010, 07:51:26 PM
You probably hear that all the time:

You are a genius man! I totaly love your work.

The loud part of Imminent Danger II comes a little bit to hard for me. Quite a shocker there ;-). It will be hard to loop this piece in a game situation, but it could fit definetly into a cutscene.

Best wishes
Andreas
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on November 25, 2010, 08:21:47 PM
Thank you Andreas!

As for Imminent Danger II (or Tread Lightly, as it's called now) I see what you mean, but personally I see no problem with the music being highly dynamic. Yes, the loud part might appear at the wrong moment (e.g. when the player has killed all monsters in an area and no dramatic stuff is going on) but OTOH, would it be better to keep all music at the same dynamic level so nothing will "jump out"? I think not. That would get boring after a while and it would severely limit my and other contributor's options.

It's orchestral music, not pop, and soft parts followed by loud parts is par for the course :)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Andreas on November 25, 2010, 10:47:29 PM
I see what you mean. The music should definetly be cool and not boring! I also have to admit, that I have no knolege of this fine art, so I leave the judgement to the one, who know, what they are talking about ;-). I think your music fits the game very well.

Best wishes
Andreas
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on November 26, 2010, 01:29:02 PM
To clarify, I wasn't implying that you don't know what you're talking about, I was just trying to explain my view. That doesn't mean there can't be an actual problem with this tune or any other, and if others feel the same way about dynamic shifts like that I'm of course willing to tone it down a bit.

I'm not some unassailable expert, I often make bad mixing/arranging desicions that aren't obvious to me. So I'm glad that people point these things out.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on November 26, 2010, 10:19:24 PM
Quote from: 'Telaron' pid='1122' dateline='1290004049'

Quote from: 'CheeseLord' pid='1120' dateline='1289727779'

Telaron: That link seems to be broken...perhaps you need the 'shared' link?? ;)


Sorry, every time Mediafire logs me out, the link stops working.

Terror From the Forest (http://www.4shared.com/embed/429009594/f3d84183)

I uploaded it to 4shared.com, but that only allows you to listen to, not download the song. Anyone know of a good file sharing site that that is free?


Hey Telaron, I missed the earlier development of this piece when it was posted. I wasn't too sure on the latest version when I first listened to it, but I actually think the backdrop to the track is fantastic. I must have had my volume turned too low, the first listen through. I missed a lot of detail, all of it makes for great gameplay music.

I think the higher string parts could transition better, early on and about the 0.57 sec section. these sound very synthy. The very latter part sounds as if it could break into melody, but doesn't quite make the complexity. I think most of the higher string parts could work in some subtle refrain, maybe based on West's theme, perhaps. But your work in the lower register sections hits the mark, I think.

Nice.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on November 29, 2010, 01:47:45 PM
Quote from: 'Trilby' pid='1149' dateline='1290806364'

all of it makes for great gameplay music.


Thanks, Trilby.:)

The higher strings could probably be replaced. I'll have to go back through EWQL's library and see if I can find a replacement.

Thanks for the reply.:D

BTW, check my last link guys. You can now download the mp3.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on December 14, 2010, 11:14:37 PM
I just noticed that I somehow missed the last progress here and tried to catch up now. On the last piece: Well awesome work again, as usually in the music department ^^. I think we have plenty occasion to use this, not only woods, but I think it would also fit some creepy caves. As it combines several moods (dangerous, agressive, mysterious) its not very easy to classify.

One essential question is: Is this piece finished right now ? I know that you are all perfectionists and do not like unpolished music to be published. On the other hand that means, that you should explicitely mark pieces you are satisfied with ;)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on December 15, 2010, 03:13:56 PM
Sorry about not posting guys. I've been out with the flu for a while. I'll see if I can't fix the violins today and post the (wav?) file.

Alright here's the edited wav file named TFTF.:)
Terror from the Forest (http://www.mediafire.com/?d76h9wu6y8cgpks)
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on December 15, 2010, 05:47:16 PM
Hi Telaron, this file is very large. Would you be able to provide us with an .ogg version; the music format used in game?
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on December 15, 2010, 07:46:44 PM
No, sorry.:( I don't have an audio converter that converts to ogg. I usually only ever use mp3. I'll have to let West convert it to ogg.

Which reminds me, I have $50 to spend...

Thanks Trilby.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on December 15, 2010, 08:13:42 PM
You don't need to pay for an ogg converter, it's an free and open format.

I'm going to have a listen to this new version and see if we can consider it for inclusion in the game.
I'm sorry Telaron, this piece is going to need a considerable amount of work before we can use it. The first version you posted sounded very promising but I don't hear any real improvements in this new one.

First of all, I've told you before to use midi CC#11 (Expression) curves on sustained parts to make them sound less static. A violin note that goes SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE for several seconds is not pretty. If you don't know how to use CC#11, make an effort to find out. Check your DAW's manual, or google it. It's one of the fundamentals of working with midi and you MUST learn how to use it.

Secondly, there's no real structure to the piece. It just moves linearly through a few seemingly unrelated parts. You need to work harder on making your compositions flow. You need to establish a theme, then return to it once or twice to give the piece a sense of wholeness. Among other things. Don't just write stuff off the top of your head and think it's a composition, because it isn't. It's just random bits of music in sequence.

Thirdly, you seem to be afraid of harmony. There's mostly monophonic lines and bass notes which gets a little dull after a while. It's especially evident at the end, when one of my themes show up. It's just octaves!

Fourthly, you should use more instruments than just strings.

Having said all that, I love the part at 0:52, I think you should explore that idea further.


Right now, this is not up to the standards I have in mind for the game.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: fusion44 on December 15, 2010, 10:06:28 PM
You can use videolan player to ogg.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on September 22, 2011, 11:47:50 AM
Attempting to get out of my rut, here's some additional music for the tutorial:

Windclaw's Lair (http://www.box.net/shared/m18a0ppl8bfr113vrhq8)

Very rough, very sloppy. Let me know what you think.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on September 22, 2011, 01:40:34 PM
I think it does lack the potency of the earlier pieces you've created for Sumwars, but otherwise I think this could become a good soundtrack piece. Although I'm not sure if the overall tone of the piece may sound a little too whimsical, particularly the first half.

This may sound like a criticism of the appropriateness of soundtrack style, but I don't believe this necessarily means whimsey isn't the preferable choice. However, it does lead me onto a related concern about establishing what the consistent theme/ambiance for the story should be.

Please do split this into a separate topic from the music forum, if you don't want it here. Full discussion is better served in a separate forum thread, and I certainly don't want to get on anybody's nerves with anything I say, but it seems appropriate to bring this up now.

I've never been quite certain about what tone the story in Sumwars has wanted to set, overall. There is a great deal of back-chat, irreverence and in-game jokes throughout most dialogue. Windclaw's guards seem to set a comic introduction to the game. Yet the types of characters the players are in control of i.e Branded-ones, info about Harad and the overall plot involving Necromancers etc. Even establishing Windclaw himself, it all seems very dark by comparison.

I would have difficulty knowing what type of soundtrack/composition would be appropriate in these situations. Or, if many of the in-jokes etc, might even undermine the atmosphere of the game, considering the warlike and soul-saving details of the story so far. Generally, I have no problem with mixing humour and a serious story, but I do believe further refinement is needed to keep consistency.

I suppose I just wanted to know what other peoples opinions on this topic were?
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: kalimgard on September 22, 2011, 07:43:24 PM
hm... it sounds good, but I think it's too fast, especially the first 40 seconds. They give it a "wannabe wizard" atmosphere, and honestly, you can say a lot about Windclaw, but he is no wannabe.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on September 23, 2011, 07:05:06 PM
Quote from: 'Trilby' pid='1947' dateline='1316695234'

I think it does lack the potency of the earlier pieces you've created for Sumwars


Tell me about it :P

Quote from: 'Trilby' pid='1947' dateline='1316695234'
Although I'm not sure if the overall tone of the piece may sound a little too whimsical, particularly the first half.


Without going into your discussion about style, the whimsicalness was definitely intentional as the tutorial does have a feeling of dark comedy. I figured a sort of Elfmanesque sound might be fitting, but I'm not sure.

Quote from: 'kalimgard' pid='1949' dateline='1316717004'

hm... it sounds good, but I think it's too fast, especially the first 40 seconds. They give it a "wannabe wizard" atmosphere, and honestly, you can say a lot about Windclaw, but he is no wannabe.


Fast? It feels lumbering rather than fast to me -- the present music used in the tutorial is much faster. I also intended this for the first part of the tutorial, chatting with the guards, killing slugs etc. When the protagonist reaches Windclaw's chamber, I'm all for switching to slower and more ominous music.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: KroArtem on September 23, 2011, 09:27:25 PM
The beginning of this track reminds me Fable a lot :)
I really like practically all the track, may be only some seconds after 0:40 doesn't sound good for me :)
In general: it rocks! Continue improving this track and make it a bit longer.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Dratz-_C on September 25, 2011, 12:58:09 AM
In general, I think that this game could use a broad spectrum of music to fit particular situations. I feel that a clarinet part could add some texture and interplay. Some occasional harp arpeggios might accentuate transitions or points at key places in the piece, similar to what one might use a reverse cymbal for. As usual, I am not very good at suggesting appropriate percussion. What do you think of these ideas, West? I think the wannabes are the guards and the player-character. From my limited experience with Windclaw in playing the game I do agree about switching to the ominous music when the player reaches the chamber.
Cheers
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on October 03, 2011, 09:42:29 AM
A little update (http://www.box.net/shared/m18a0ppl8bfr113vrhq8). No big surprises but it's a bit more interesting now, and a bit less sloppy :P
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: KroArtem on October 03, 2011, 08:20:17 PM
Cool, now it is long enough, add +20-25 seconds and this will be really _enough_ to add windclaws_lair to the game :)
It doesn't sound annoying or irritating.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Dratz-_C on October 03, 2011, 11:15:08 PM
I think you are making the motif progress, grabbing my attention. I believe you have added character and consistency in seconds 58-68 with your new lyrical bassoon part and triplets. I also feel that you are doing a good job intimating the importance of the story with the triangle, marimba, timpani, descending bar chime?, and harp parts. I like that you have introduced an element of concern in seconds 68-97 with the pensive tambourine and strings, descending clarinet, and sombre French horn dyads. I will have to think some more about what you might do to finish the piece to KroArtem's (and anyone elses?) satisfaction.
Cheers
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on October 04, 2011, 08:15:59 PM
There is some lovely work here. I agree with Dratz-C that there is a fine sense of gravitas in the latter parts of the piece. However I'm still of the the opinion the the first section, up to 40 or so secs seems somewhat at odds with the atmosphere needed for the story. As it is now I find it sounds too much on the whimsical side. Everything else fits wonderfully, I will add (raised the hairs on my arms).

I wired this track into the tutorial section of the game, and gave it a play, just to see how the first section might fit. :) Actually, for the most part, the whole of the composition worked well for the Tolec and Derred's dialogue. However, it threw in some odd moments, such as making the attack of giant monster and subsequent deaths of the slaves seem inappropriately comic. Admittedly, these in game instances will probably merit their own parts of the soundtrack in time. As it stands now, that first 40 sec section probably doesn't fit as well as the current "treacherous_paths" piece does overall.
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: West on October 04, 2011, 11:00:15 PM
Thanks guys! I'm glad you like the bits of progress I've made. Actually I agree, tidying the playing up and adding little details and nuances really made a world of difference.

Tribly, I see what you mean. Tried it in-game myself and you're right, it's wrong for the giant monster scene -- kind of funny though :) As you say, the cut scenes will need their own music later on but right now we'll have to live with the music being slightly inappropriate sometimes. Either that or have bland music that's semi-appropriate for everything :P

Also, this tune is not meant to replace Treacherous Paths. I think both work well for the tutorial, as long as we have some darker stuff for when the Branded One meets Windclaw (and, as mentioned, a "giant flaming monster cue").
Title: RE: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on October 05, 2011, 07:59:41 PM
I now got the time to post some feedback as well. First of all: Its very nice to see you posting some new content again :) . On the piece itself: For me, this is not some music for confrontation or meeting some major antagonist. This piece rather sounds like a perfect theme for some evil-doers operating sneakingly under the cover of night. After 1:10 it gets friendlier and not that appropriate for some *evil* scenes.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: dezGusty on November 14, 2011, 05:03:30 PM
Just a question:

Do you guys think the style from this one is fitting to the game? (I for one like the used instrumentation, and the used tools seem to be freely available)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJusal6f5Io (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJusal6f5Io)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on November 14, 2011, 05:38:48 PM
I am seriously wondering if there is any department in developement where you are not contributing anything :D
However for music be aware that the quality standard set by West is really high ^^
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: dezGusty on November 14, 2011, 07:00:27 PM
This must be just some residue back from the times when I was writing complete games on my own... before I actually knew exactly how much work that actually involves.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on November 16, 2011, 11:30:30 AM
dezGusty, you think you could upload a higher quality version to box.net or some other file sharing service?

To everyone posting music submissions: youtube compresses audio to crap, please don't use it. It's impossible to form an opinion about sample and sound quality when the music is swimming in warbly compression artifacts.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: dezGusty on November 16, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
West: no, sorry.
I'm not the author of the piece. I just came across it, and liked the style.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on November 16, 2011, 12:29:23 PM
West: no, sorry.
I'm not the author of the piece. I just came across it, and liked the style.

Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you created it. Personally I think the percussion stuff is really cool but the melodic samples are lacking to say the least, so it's nothing I would use as is.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on December 09, 2011, 04:13:36 PM
New track -- A Reluctant Hero (http://www.box.com/s/4qb2km7tog2ezcjd5q07).

Structurally finished but still missing a lot of details and polish. This, I think, could be considered typical "general gameplay" music. Dramatic enough to be used during regular combat & exploration, but not quite as intense as boss fight music (e.g. Battle at Dwarfenwall). If anyone can think of a better title, let me know.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on December 09, 2011, 09:04:15 PM
Well... I love it, so far! Nice work, West.

If it would have been a welcome suggestion, I would have favoured a choir section to another composition. Not just because I'm hooked to the latest Skyrim soundtrack, either.  ;)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on December 10, 2011, 06:47:02 PM
Thanks Trilby! Not sure what you mean about the choir though... you think it's unfitting?

Also, here's another one for ya: Inferno Behemoth (http://www.box.com/s/nd3j6dj4z9l02v4r3ffv). Still only 30 seconds, need to be about a minute longer I think. And if you haven't guessed it, it's for the inferno behemoth cutscene and dialog in the tutorial :)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on December 10, 2011, 06:48:39 PM
Hmm, this thread is starting to get very cluttered and confusing. I'm going to post a new thread with links to all my sumwars tracks, and I encourage other music contributors to do the same.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Jorge Avila on December 11, 2011, 12:00:30 AM
Hmm, this thread is starting to get very cluttered and confusing. I'm going to post a new thread with links to all my sumwars tracks, and I encourage other music contributors to do the same.

Yeah, i support that move.

By the way "A Reluctant Hero", sounds awesome. Pretty intense and dark.
I think it will be the "Hit" of sumwars.
I really enjoy  hearing the percussion and the arrangements. and the "ahhhhh" sound kind of magical and dark :P
You could use it in some other pieces, i think.

I'm Sorry for not being able to give you the feedback you deserve.
But i can  tell is that i really like it =).

Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on December 11, 2011, 09:09:26 AM
Seems that you are back with a rush of creativity - excellent work West !  Your reluctant hero piece will mix in nicely to the existing gameplay music. Some more diversity in this area is very important too, because our current music content is awesome, but gets repetitive after a while. Concerning the title: I agree, that its somewhat suboptimal (considering that the piece itself it rather agressive and motivating) - but does the player ever see the title somewhere ? As far as I know, that is not the case, so that it is not a big issue.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Trilby on December 11, 2011, 02:12:11 PM
Thanks Trilby! Not sure what you mean about the choir though... you think it's unfitting?

Heavens, no. I actually meant it as an endorsement. I really like choral/voice work in orchestral music but I also think it suits this piece wonderfully.  :)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 11, 2011, 07:26:22 PM
West,
How about "Imperiled Hero" as a title?; or anything that suggests the challenge of battle rather than the psychology of the subject. I think your music sounds good except for the French horns not synchronizing with the trumpets (or the general rhythm?) at 1:43-45. I think your "Inferno Behomoth" conveys the shock of the creature and then the tactics it invokes on the unlucky people it kills. I feel You have done a good job with it, so far. I'll see you in your new thread.
Cheers
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Telaron on January 02, 2012, 05:24:05 PM
Hey West, just thought I'd say that I thoroughly enjoyed your song 'A Reluctant Hero'. Great job with the forward motion. As I was listening, I found myself looking forward to see how you would connect those melodies. Awesome, can't wait to hear more. (The download says its a WIP so I presume there will be more?)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on January 14, 2012, 02:34:03 PM
Thanks for your comments guys, and sorry for my absence. I'm composing a commissioned track and that has to take precedence for now, but I'm still working on these two tunes when time permits :)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on March 17, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
Inferno Behemoth (http://www.box.com/s/nd3j6dj4z9l02v4r3ffv) is almost done... ended up almost a minute longer than I intended but I was on a roll.

Right now there's some stuff missing, like percussion in some places, a continuation of the horn melody at 1:10, and the staccato flutes/oboes in the final part.  The timing also needs to be tidied up in a lot of places, and there's a few out of tune notes in the solo bassoon's high register -- need to fix that.

I made the end of the tune a bit more subdued for two reasons. Firstly, there's no actual confrontation with the monster so having the track ending in a big climax makes no sense. Secondly, as it's longer than might be necessary for the cutscene & dialog, it sounds better if it's cut short during a soft part than a loud one.

I also seem to remember Trilby wishing for more choral parts so... there you go :)

In other news, A Relcutant Hero is around 90% finished, I've just been procrastinating because of some tedious detail work that needs to be done. I've also a completely new track close to being finished but more on that in a little while...
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: Lastmerlin on March 19, 2012, 11:38:33 PM
Nice to see you around here again :)
Very nice work with the new track, too. I especially like the rhytm - of course the syncopes (right word?) add greatly to the drive of the piece.
Concerning length: You can quite easily test the piece in-place by calling a simple command while playing the game. This gives you a rough idea how the piece fits into the cutscene at least.
I noticed that the XML code in this part of the forum got fucked up, need to fix that. But the simple command is still available.
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: poVoq on March 20, 2012, 12:23:38 AM
Nice song for sure! Could be fitting for a nice background music of a new trailer ;)
Title: Re: Gameplay music
Post by: West on March 21, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
Lastmerlin: thanks! And yes that is the right word, the intro in particular has some interesting syncopation going on :) As for length, I did try it back when I started composing the piece and concluded that the cutscene and following dialog requires around 1:30. But then that depends on how fast you read (and click) so the music being too long is probably better than too short.

poVoq: Not a bad idea, I'm much happier with this track than the one for the current video which was a very rushed composition.

Stand by for updates, I might just be able to finish both this one and A Reluctant Hero before the week is over.