Topic: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects

Trilby on January 18, 2011, 11:10:27 PM

Trilby

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So, I've returned to Blender after a long hiatus, finally getting round to trying my hand at some models for Sumwars.

I thought I'd try working on a model for some spiral stairs, the missing level transition between lvl 1 and 2 of Mylon's grave. I'm not sure what will prove feasible at the moment, nor am I too sure of the limitations of the environment graphics, for example if an object graphic can replace or cut away a floor tile?

Here's a rough idea, at the moment the upper stairs, i.e what you see approaching the way to lvl 2. In this design a floor tile would be replaced with the stair mesh, with the cave walls meant to surround all but the front. Like I say, I think this might not work, but this is the thread for me to find out what is possible.

An alternative would be to provide a stair mesh, that is seen through an archway, that could be made from a modified cave wall mesh.



« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 08:33:01 PM by Trilby »
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Lastmerlin on January 19, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
Reply #1

Lastmerlin

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Hmm the model looks nice, but I fear we will get two issues:
1. Psycho is working on some spiral staircase as well and I dont know how much the use cases of these models overlap. If we are lucky he has done an *upward* staircase, while yours is a downward one. I will remember him once more to post some pictures on forum. The source of the problem is, that progress in mesh creating is not very well documented. I dont have a good overview too...
2. Your models needs to be placed _below_ the floor. Our current engine for the floor is very inflexible and does not removing the floor at this place. I hoped for improvement in this department since releasing 0.5, sadly nothing has happened, because I am not good enough with ogre to do something much better and nobody else joined how could do it :(
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Trilby on January 19, 2011, 06:55:53 PM
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Trilby

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I thought that the above approach might not work, so no worries. Of course the upward stairs will not have the same problem. Any sort of downward stair is going to be tricky and limited at the moment then, therefore would likely be a place holder.

The only option, for now, would be to create an object that sat above ground, like a dias or raised platform --with the stairs cut into it (obviously this can't be walked on, only clicked on to provide the transition).

or

Modify a wall mesh with a doorway in it.

For either option it would be handy for me to  be able to import the cave wall meshes, to know what sizes to make these objects. I'm able to import the player mesh from Kalimgard's .obj file, to get relative size to the creatures. But then, it probably wouldn't work well to scale the finished object to match the environment afterward --I hope you understood that. ;)

Let's see what work Psycho has done for the stair, I may just move onto making more architecture, if he's got further with the project.


EDIT
Here's a rough concept model for the downward stairs within a raised platform/dias. Definitely not to scale, it's just been modeled quickly.

« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:17:21 PM by Trilby »
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Psycho on January 19, 2011, 11:58:00 PM
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Psycho

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so here are a picture with all the stairs I have
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Trilby on January 20, 2011, 12:38:56 AM
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Trilby

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Nice work, far more imaginative than my own. I should pick up a pencil and sketch before I start modeling.

A couple of thoughts/questions come to mind.

Firstly, are region exits always in set places? So is it easy to have a specific model (as an exit) also be part of the wall structure, without having to worry about the random layout interfering with it?

Based on some of Psycho's ideas, there may be some imaginative workarounds, so the stairs could still look like they are descending but not actually need to cut through the floor. Although we've established that there are spiral stairs in the Mylon's grave region, all we really need are interesting looking transition objects. I like the irregular shapes here. I wonder if the actual stairs were to be positioned almost horizontally, whether they could still look as if they are descending --to some extent.

Is this your project Psycho? I don't want to get in the way.
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Lastmerlin on January 20, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
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The grave levels are randomly generated regions which means, that the exit is not always at the same place. Currently, there are two ways to create exits for such regions: Option one is letting the mapgenerator create the exit. It is always on the border then and you can just walk out there. Option two is that you can place a so-called object group in the region. This is a pattern that always looks the same and that is placed by the map generator in the randomly generated environment. Almost all places that are relevant for quests (willard, brons farm, the goblin hideout,...) are such object groups. Inside such objectgroups you can also place region exits. In fact, the entrace to maylons grave already uses that technique.

On using tricks to avoid shortcomings of the current tile system: Well we have not better options, but its still a horrible hack. Perhaps I will try to make a short hack to avoid these problems. This would be a temporary solution, but if you dont put too much time into it, temporary solutions are perfectly ok.
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Trilby on January 20, 2011, 11:21:02 AM
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Trilby

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Can the "object group" that this stair model is in, be placed so that is also part of the region wall? If so, would the size of the 'stair model' be confined by the current dimensions of the tile-able wall meshes?
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Lastmerlin on January 20, 2011, 01:01:07 PM
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Lastmerlin

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Nope, currently, the mapgenerator places objects groups always _inside_ the region, not at the border. Beeing able to place it at the border might be a good extension, but at the moments its not possible.
However, some walls can be part of the object group. In  the grave, these rooms with sarcophagus are made this way for instance. You could easily place  some stairs in one room instead.
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Psycho on January 20, 2011, 07:34:51 PM
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Psycho

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@ Trilby

at the moment I work on some others projects.

so if you want , feel free to work on this one ,


btw:  tell me if you need some of this meshes
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 07:35:47 PM by Psycho »
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shirish on January 20, 2011, 09:02:09 PM
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wow and wow, I really like some of the stairs done by Psycho. Its really hard to say which is the best although I really liked the top 2nd and third. I don't remember much but if Merlin's grave can have either of those for transition it would be great. I would go to Merlin's grave just to see that transition.
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Trilby on January 22, 2011, 12:10:57 AM
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Trilby

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@ Psycho

Thanks, I'll give this project a go. But I think there's enough info to work from, just by looking at the wireframe pics you've provided. Thanks for the above.

@ Shirish

I'm sure you meant Maylon's or Mylon's grave, not Merlin's. I think in terms of Sumwars and lead developers, he's very much alive at present. ;)
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Trilby on February 10, 2011, 11:26:16 PM
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Trilby

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At first I was looking for an additional way to decorate a stairway model. I came up with the idea of modeling a statue, that would form part of a supporting pillar.

Originally this was going to be a statue of Avaera, however after a bit of reading I remembered that Maylon was a Zealot follower of Akeran, and therefore Avaera and all the rest are considered heretical, and would not be represented in the tomb. Oh well.

Anyway this is a Blender screenshot of the statue model so far, let me know what you think of it, whether it's worth continuing with for use elsewhere in the game.



P.S If you care to scroll on far enough through the picture album, you may find some rough sketches for some Dwarfen undead, I did a while ago.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 11:29:52 PM by Trilby »
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kalimgard on February 11, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
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Well, I'm sure we could use it, and there will be at least one temple of Avaera in the game, but right now I wouldn't know were to put it. That means: Don't throw it away, but don't put a lot of effort in it at the moment either.
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Trilby on February 15, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
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Trilby

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I'll keep the statue project on hold for now.

I've worked on a stair/transition model. Although I suppose this could be a generic caves transition rather than a specific Maylon's grave piece.

This model is based on the longer cave wall mesh from kalimgard's .obj upload. So in theory it should line up well. The stairs would form part of an object group inside the cave region (not on the region border), along with a few other wall pieces.

Images of the model so far.



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Psycho on February 15, 2011, 11:08:29 PM
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