Summoning Wars Forum

Users => General Discussion => Topic started by: West on December 04, 2012, 11:22:16 PM

Title: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on December 04, 2012, 11:22:16 PM
*crickets*

Really breaks my heart to see this game sink into oblivion :(

I have a few music tracks that will be finalized and released before the end of the year, but unless we see at least some action in other areas as well, I'm outta here.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 05, 2012, 08:04:47 AM
Argh, this is so annoying. Life is getting in the way.
I keep postponing restarting the development on Summoning Wars, and it seems that, if I keep doing that, by the time I resume working on it, there will be no one else to talk to  :(

I'm not making any promises any more, as I failed to keep my previous ones. But I'll try to motivate myself into the project again. It would be a shame to not have the latest iteration of the Reluctant Hero track in the game. It's simply awesome.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 05, 2012, 05:47:07 PM
Kulik send me an email today asking if we want to make a 0.5.7 release, and I said yes! It'll be only a bugfix release but its still a release :) Maybe we can add one or two new tracks to the mix, this should not be to hard. I'd aim for some time between the hollidays, before that I can't devote any time to this.
After the hollidays I won't much time for Summoning Wars until June when I finish my studies. After June I really want to start work on this again!
Kulik noted this would be the right time to let a GSOC student work on Summoning Wars and I'd love to help him doing this. All ideas what they might do are welcome!

Other than this, I know Psycho has still some nice models in the pipeline which he hasn't posted yet and his brother is making himself comfortable with Blender for doing some animations.

The future for this project does not look as grim as this forums may make you believe :)

Anyway, life's a bitch!
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: poVoq on December 05, 2012, 07:04:46 PM
Uggh, June seems faaaar away... sorry to be pessimistic about it.

There was recently a suggestion on the FreeGamer forums ( http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=2903&p=39050#p39050 ) if it wouldn't make sense to try and merge SumWars with OpenDungeons. As far as I can tell, they are build on a pretty similar technical base (Ogre3D and such) but the devil always lies in the details.
Anyways, the beauty would be that those two games actually complement each other nicely, where the OD part could be also used as an ingame level editor and all the monsters and heroes could be used for both types of games.

In addition this would open the possibility for a great new multiplayer type:
"I always wished there was a game with an sort of real-time editor similar to DK (either completely free to build or with game constraints like limited funds or such) where one "Dungeon Master" could play against a hero group that plays like a sort of Diablo like game. Would make for a great combination of COOP gameplay with the old pen and paper dungeon master concept."

Not sure what people think of that over here, but the OD guys seem to be supportive of this idea, however they are facing the same lack of development due to a lack of active coders as SumWars.
However with such a grand proposal it would maybe be possible to attract some skilled coders over at the Ogre3D boards... well at least it would be worth a try :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: poVoq on December 06, 2012, 09:06:08 PM
http://freegamer.blogspot.com/2012/12/cry-for-programming-help.html

Maybe that helps. Sorry if my merger proposal is done without official endorsement by the SumWars team!
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on December 06, 2012, 11:11:00 PM
http://freegamer.blogspot.com/2012/12/cry-for-programming-help.html

Maybe that helps. Sorry if my merger proposal is done without official endorsement by the SumWars team!

Let's see what comes of it.

I'm definitely all for a bugfix release with some added content!
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 07, 2012, 11:14:23 AM
Hmm... a merger might be a solution to our problems. I just hope we don't end up with double the problems.
In theory, there would be a small challenge ahead, in which some common approach should be chosen (create a common core for the game, develop each individual sub-game as a mod, use a common art repository and allow map/level creators to add the resources to their work as needed).

It's too early to have an overview of how much effort that would be. I'll have to take a look into the Open Dungeons project first.

Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: poVoq on December 07, 2012, 05:17:10 PM
Cool that you also think it is maybe feasible.

Please join the discussion here if possible:
http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=3879
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Skorpio on December 07, 2012, 07:11:11 PM
Hi, I'm an artist of the Open Dungeons project and just wanted to say hello. I hope we can collaborate in some way in the future and bring our projects back to life.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Skorpio on December 07, 2012, 09:15:53 PM
I see that you have functional shadows in SW. That's something we could use in OD as well, if you have time and if it doesn't cause too much work. :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 08, 2012, 08:40:33 AM
Hi Skorpio. Nice of you to drop by.
So far it seems that a collaboration of the two projects is seen by both teams as something positive. That's encouraging :-)

Shadows were experimental in the last version, but we encountered no major issues. So you could say that we have shadows in SW. Developing a common core for both games would also mean adding shadows support in a generic mode.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 08, 2012, 07:54:47 PM
Hi folks,
I still try to come up with content for Summoning Wars in the rare instances when I have the time, luck and motivation. I am definitely in it for the long term on a student's schedule. I check the Summoning Wars forums five times a week. As far as merging the Open Dungeons and Summoning Wars projects, I am open to and enthusiastic about it. Similar to what has been said in this thread, once we get over the soliciting and programmatic hump we can integrate most of the artistic content that we have produced just before and throughout the merging process. I am excited to read more of the discussion and see what happens specific to the merge idea and any other general traditional development for Summoning Wars. I have no practical programming skills but I will relish looking more closely at Open Dungeons in the near future.
As an aside, the Open Dungeons forum is hosted on http://www.freegamedev.net which also hosts the Red Eclipse forum which I check about 5 times a week and work on content for as well.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on December 13, 2012, 10:29:03 PM
Could we even set a deadline for a 0.57 release? Deadlines help me focus :P

I can only speak for myself but I'll have more free time than usual during the holidays so getting something out before/at dec 31 sounds like a plan to me.

Feasible?
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 14, 2012, 12:39:25 PM
Hi,

I'll be able to work on the project starting with Dec. 22nd. So, I would suggest a release around ~31 dec/03 jan.
I should have some time to look into the code base for OD in that time frame as well.

Does anyone else have some input on the topic?
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 15, 2012, 04:25:06 PM
I'd set the deadline to 31.12.12 and use in week 1 for preparing packages and wrap everything up.
Release at the first weekend in January?
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: poVoq on December 16, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Sounds good, especially that you are looking into the OD code too.

Currently there seem to be two ideas over at the OD board, either going along with Summoning Wars, and given some of the comments regarding the messy code of OD I guess that would mean trying to integrate the tile editing features into SumWars or such, or making a voxel based OD on the Lips of Suna engine. Personally I would much rather see the former, but the latter might result in some interesting ideas too.

So please keep up updated on what you opinion on that is.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on December 16, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
I'd set the deadline to 31.12.12 and use in week 1 for preparing packages and wrap everything up.
Release at the first weekend in January?

Sounds fine to me!
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 17, 2012, 08:24:04 PM
Anyone in for a playtest session? I'd suggest the 28.12 or 29.12?
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 18, 2012, 10:32:18 AM
Count me in for a playtest session. Any time between 28 and 30 dec. sounds good to me.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 22, 2012, 01:43:01 AM
West,
Regarding deadlines, I go back to college on January 3rd so over the holidays I am in your position as well.
fusion44,
I am a total newbie on the process of getting the development version so that I can playtest with you. Do you have any basic suggestions? I can play at GMT-5 hours from 5pm-10pm on Friday December 28th and 10am-10pm on December 29th.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 22, 2012, 09:43:58 PM
I'll provide a binary for Windows users.
For Linux you'll have to compile it yourself: http://sumwars.org/wiki/Build_instructions

If you have any questions, just ask :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 23, 2012, 06:54:13 AM
Thanks fusion44,
Since I have Windows XP 32-bit, just tell me when and where to get development the binary.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 24, 2012, 10:54:14 PM
I have uploaded the latest Windows binary to my Dropbox:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3473245/sw/sumwars_24_12_2012.zip

Please test! :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 25, 2012, 01:45:10 PM
fusion44,
Thank you. I am downloading it now. I will post back if I have any problems.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 25, 2012, 07:20:11 PM
Looks like the game crashes on startup. But its easy to fix. go to the .sumwars folder and open plugins.cfg and replace the line
Code: [Select]
PluginFolder=F:/Dev/deps/Ogre1.8/install/bin/release/with:
Code: [Select]
PluginFolder=.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 27, 2012, 04:34:09 AM
fusion44,
It runs fine now.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 27, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
I have also created an installer:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3473245/sw/Sumwars-0.5.7-windows-installer.exe

The version for this release will be 0.5.7
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 28, 2012, 05:52:12 AM
fussion44,
Using the Windows installer and then running the game results in the error in the picture, ostensibly involving some references to sumwars-0.5.5.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 28, 2012, 08:14:01 AM
The crash can be fixed by modifying the plugins.cfg file in:

c:\Users\(dratz_user_name)\.sumwars\

Set the PluginFolder=. entry to be either a "." or the path to where you installed sumwars.

I think we should fix the default path that comes with the installer though.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 28, 2012, 08:43:54 PM
Looks like there are some more startup errors to fix. I'm on it.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 29, 2012, 05:38:24 AM
I am visiting my parents tomorrow to go see the Hobbit in High Frame Rate 3D. I might not be able to get on after 10:00 am -5 hours GMT. I will try to make it up before my class starts on January 3rd. This might mean Sunday could be better for me, but do not limit yourself around my schedule. It is 11:38PM. Last night was late too.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on December 29, 2012, 08:05:02 AM
One thing I would like us to have prior to the actual event: a network and some clarity.
- Please join the #sumwars irc channel on freenode when you are ready to play, so that we may try to play.
- Does anyone have a public address, or some port forwarding set-up on their router? If so, please mention that and we can use it. Otherwise, I would suggest that we try a VPN solution, such as hamachi ( http://vpn.net/ ). The free version supports up to 5 computers.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 30, 2012, 04:13:08 AM
Ok dezGusty,
I downloaded hamachi. It seems to be working even though I have the internet content filter Safe Eyes. Open VPN did not fair so well. I am connected to the IRC channel for the next hour. I may be on tomorrow, Sunday, so I will do the same two things then (irc, hamachi).
[I did not find anyone willing to play on irc so I am going to bed; better luck next time.]
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on December 30, 2012, 01:07:58 PM
wow... Hamachi is much more complicated these days as I used to know. Took me 5 minutes until I have found the download...
Sorry Dratz that I was not there -.-

I'll keep IRC opened ping me if you are ready to play.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on December 30, 2012, 06:48:09 PM
I am on irc now. I cannot use mirc so i am using the webclient from the faq. I have tried pinging with /ping fusion44 and /ping Gusty . Nothing seems to be happening just yet. I will leave the webclient open most of today even when I am unavailable.
...
Hamachi froze my system and I had to uninstall it because it used all of my cpu on its update process. I am back on irc after a reboot.
...
Well, fusion44 must be away and i think dezGusty is gone. I will try to leave irc open.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 01, 2013, 02:27:31 PM
I'll upload new packages today with Google Breakpad integrated. This will help tremendously when debugging a crash on windows.
If you get a crash you'll see a new file created in the .sumwars folder with file .dmp file ending:

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3473245/debug.png)

If you get a crash, please zip all the log files and the .dmp together and send them in via email or upload them somewhere.
In the future I'll write a small automatic upload tool for the crash reports.

This is the same system that is used in projects like Firefox and Chrome.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 01, 2013, 07:59:30 PM
Wow, great work! I've seen it before, but never got to get my hands dirty with it.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 01, 2013, 10:34:19 PM
Files are up:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3473245/sw/Sumwars-0.5.7-windows-installer.exe
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3473245/sw/Sumwars-0.5.7-windows-portable.zip

Please use this for any future testing :)

Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on January 01, 2013, 11:03:53 PM
fusion44,
Firstly, I saw you accomplishing that work on irc. I am impressed. Maybe I can try direct x rendering again and, if it crashes as before, send you an e-mail report. CEGUI.log looks like it may end up being too big to post as an attachment in the forum. Secondly, I will download the files you posted and see whether they work.
Cheers
Title: Re: 0.5.7 windows binaries
Post by: Dratz-_C on January 01, 2013, 11:43:50 PM
fussion44,
I get this output when running the 0.5.7 windows installer placed sumwars-0.5.7/sumwars.exe. Additionally, I get this output when running the 0.5.7 windows portable placed in desktop/sumwars-0.5.7-windows-portable/sumwars.exe.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on January 02, 2013, 12:10:30 AM
Sick as a dog here. Give me a day or two with the music.

Glad to see progress being made though :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 02, 2013, 05:53:16 PM
West, no problem. Just get well soon!

Dratz, not again... I should have tested. Sorry.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on January 03, 2013, 03:37:28 AM
West,
You are in our thoughts/prayers. Please help the dog get well too.
fussion44,
It is okay. I just played the lab rat in your grand experiment...which has produced the data I sent you. It is a different way of testing. It gets lonely testing everything oneself.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on January 05, 2013, 09:43:32 PM
Hmm, 2 days...my jokes must be worse than I thought.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on January 08, 2013, 10:48:13 PM
You know what, you go ahead and release an update without the music if you want to. This is all so f'ng typical.

First I get sick for like a week. Then the project file with all my current SW tracks breaks thanks to REAPER's $@#*&ยค stupid handling of time and tempo markers. So I have half a dozen tracks here with tempi and time signatures all messed up and shifted around and my most recent backup of the file is two weeks old.

I don't know when I'll have time to fix all this so... bah.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 09, 2013, 09:47:12 AM
@West: Sorry to hear that. But I guess you feel better now :-). You have time to create tracks also at a later stage. Anyway, we still have some of the newer tracks online, right? (E.g. "Reluctant Hero").

@Fusion: do you have the new tracks from West? Also, would you please test the material-system-056 branch? (It has the shader based graphics, and I recently updated it to have better support for Direct3D under Windows). I would suggest that we use that branch for the next release.
Maybe even merge it into the default branch and get rid of it afterwards.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: West on January 11, 2013, 01:49:22 AM
@West: Sorry to hear that. But I guess you feel better now :-). You have time to create tracks also at a later stage. Anyway, we still have some of the newer tracks online, right? (E.g. "Reluctant Hero").

Yeah, I guess we can use the current WIP versions of Reluctant Hero, Inferno Behemoth, Goblin Rituals and maybe also Joringsbridge. They're no more unfinished than the tracks already in the game. :P

I'll see if I can provide you with ogg versions tomorrow.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 12, 2013, 04:49:27 PM
I want to apologize that I've not been around this week. I'll be around tomorrow :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 15, 2013, 01:16:22 PM
So, fusion, did you have the chance to test the branch "material-system-056" ? I may have also checked in some CMake modules, so I just want to make sure that it doesn't break anything on your end.
I would really like it if we were to declare it good enough for now so that we can merge it into the default branch.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 16, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
I'm trying to sync the branch with default but I'm getting some merging errors in application.cpp that need to be resolved before I can test it. Every other conflict resolved nicely.
When its done I'll upload test packages.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 16, 2013, 11:55:29 PM
I've compiled it and uploaded a short video how it looks on my machine. We have to have a way to control the shadows based on the maptype. The current form of the shadows don't make any sense in maps that theoretically have a roof. I always have a feeling like the mansion has opened windows :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-6VUDV_5Vo

I'll upload a package tomorrow for all to try.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 17, 2013, 06:55:19 AM
1.
Quote
We have to have a way to control the shadows based on the maptype
Yes, that is correct. The map definition will need to also contain an information on lighting / shadow types. And they will also need to contain some predefined lights.
E.g:
- for outdoors: one strong directional light: the sun, with its position (a sunset will create different shadows)
- for indoors: several omnidirectional lights which affect only their immediate surroundings (lit torches on the wall)

2. I don't have a clue as to how the map definition looks like. But I will look into it. Unless you know it already (and could help out with this).

3. I guess you encountered no problems with the build considering the modified CMake modules?

4.
Quote
I always have a feeling like the mansion has opened windows
It currently looks like it has a glass roof, at a high altitude. I'm sure Windclaw has the money to afford it.  :)
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 22, 2013, 08:23:51 PM
Hello all, I wanted to say hello and introduce myself, but didn't want to start a new thread.

Well I'm Pappe, I'm from Germany. I'm a part time 3D-artist with some experience and I worked on several projects sofar, one was prefessional. Sumwars catched my interest some days ago and I'm looking for some new possibilities to create some art within a reasonably active team. Maybe sumwars could be something for me.

First of, I want to know a bit about the game and the team. How many of you still consider yourself active and able to contribute? What about a design document? I know the game is already playable and I already enjoyed playing it, but what about future goals condensed into a few pages?
Is there a place where you have the most needed artwork listed and sorted after priority?
Do you think it's a realistic goal, that you can release another version in a reasonable amount of time?

Sorry, for all those questions. I worked with several teams on different project, but most of them withered away slowly and painfully. But I learned from that and I believe that it's possible to revive even after near death.

So long.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 22, 2013, 09:58:10 PM
Hi Pappe, nice of you to drop by.

I'm not sure everyone will look into this thread to reply, but let's hope they do :)

About the game and the team.
I have been inactive for some time, but becoming more active during this period, as time allows me. So, I consider myself active. The project has been slowing down almost to a crawl during the last year.

We are currently lacking the kind of project management that you are asking about. (Design documents, item tracker for art). Come to think of it, we are currently lacking project management (period). And that's the biggest issue. So, as for the future goals, I'm not sure what to say. I can only mention the ones that have been raised/mentioned recently:
- make minor incremental improvements to the graphics of the game (note: this currently means making the shadow behaviour more consistent, updating the particle and shader effects, as well as adding
- update music (bring the latest pieces produced by our team member West into the game)
- update the UI of the game, as some elements are just temporary hacks.
- make the game engine more generic (scriptable, moddable). (I for one would like to be able to create a mini-game, similar to a custom map from Warcraft3: highly customizable).

Another version: as we did not release a version for quite some time, we want to make a small maintenance release just to show that we still alive.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 22, 2013, 10:04:54 PM
                Come to think of it, we are currently lacking project management (period)

I thought so. That's the thing that most OSS projects die of. Lack of managment.

How is the communication organized? Do you meet regularly via irc or other means or are you mainly communicating via the forum?

What are your plans to remedy the lack of managment? Do you have ideas to solve this?

Do you have deparment leads? Like art department lead or story department lead?

Is there a person or several persons in charge of the whole project?
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 22, 2013, 10:27:34 PM
Quote
How is the communication organized? Do you meet regularly via irc or other means or are you mainly communicating via the forum?

While there is also an IRC channel, I find myself using the forum most.

(Btw: Here's the set of guides that we have for contributions: http://sumwars.org/wiki/Contribute (http://sumwars.org/wiki/Contribute))

Quote
What are your plans to remedy the lack of managment? Do you have ideas to solve this?
So far, I've waited for the problem to solve itself with time. That didn't work yet :) . I might try to see if I can manage an open source project. But I'm still thinking about it.

Quote
Do you have deparment leads? Like art department lead or story department lead?
Yup. And they are also the forum moderators for each category.

Quote
Is there a person or several persons in charge of the whole project?
Not sure. I could have said that nobody is in charge. But things seem to be starting to move on their own. fusion44 seems to have put most time in this during the last half year.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 23, 2013, 12:46:22 AM
I'm trying to figure out who does what, who is active, and how much manpower is left. There seems to be more of a lack of programmers than artists, is that right?

If you look at the general forum about future goals and stuff like that, the goals are stated, but I can't figure out to what degree they've been implemented if at all. If that was known that would be much easier to get some order into this mess via copy&pasting. :)
It's not so much of a mess though, it's just hard to figure out in a short amount of time.
Maybe you could help me figure that out?

Has there been work on the art and asset infrastructure proposed by Kulik?
http://sumwars.org/forum/index.php?topic=355.0

What about the long-term goals stated by lastmerlin?
http://sumwars.org/forum/index.php?topic=125.0

And the UI reskin as proposed by Jorge Avila in the same thread, what about this? What has been implemented?

Have the plans for 0.5.7 been implemented?
http://sumwars.org/forum/index.php?topic=386.0
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Dratz-_C on January 23, 2013, 01:55:04 AM
Pappe,
I would like to welcome you to Summoning Wars. It is nice to see someone new among us. I do not expect you to stay on with us but I hope that you have time to.  ;) I work on little projects involving music. I also help with testing windows releases. Like dezGusty I usually use the forum to communicate with others, but I use irc when necessary.
Cheers
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 23, 2013, 11:06:07 AM
Hello Dratz-_C, nice to meet you. You as well dezGusty, totally forgot that. :)


It sure is better to have no expectations. But I'm really impressed about what you have achieved so far. I liked playing the game so far. And my fingers are itching to improve the graphics. :) I guess I will stay a bit.

I just listened to your ambient music. It's awesome.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 23, 2013, 02:13:56 PM
So far I haven't been able to locate source files. Are they stored somewhere or are only the .mesh files available? I know there is a blender importer for Ogre meshes, but that one is like 4 years old and for Blender 3.6 with python 2.4. I was able to get it to run about a year ago. But I don't remember how I did it. I tried to the last few hours, but I wasn't able to get it to run. I wanted to import some models to fiddle with them.

Here's the import script just in case someone wants to try to get it to run. You need blender 2.36 and python 2.4, in theory at least.
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/BlenderImport
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 23, 2013, 06:51:54 PM
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There seems to be more of a lack of programmers than artists, is that right?
Yes, that's the situation.

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If you look at the general forum about future goals and stuff like that, the goals are stated, but I can't figure out to what degree they've been implemented if at all
I would say most are not implemented.

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Has there been work on the art and asset infrastructure proposed by Kulik?
Not for some time now. We do have 2 separate repositories, but I did not check the art repository for some time now:
- SVN for art resources (http://sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=209721&source=navbar (http://sourceforge.net/scm/?type=svn&group_id=209721&source=navbar)).
- Mercurial for code
I think you will want to look into the SVN repository for the art. However, I'm not sure you will find blend files. I know some items are created in Maya, but I can't guarantee it.
Anyway, do you have some previous art that you can show off? I would like to see what visual style you would bring to the table :-)

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What about the long-term goals stated by lastmerlin?
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Have the plans for 0.5.7 been implemented?
I added some basic support for shadows. But now the maps need to be updated.(shadows look funny underground). I think only one of the other goals (related to some mission scripting) is almost finished. An editor was started, but... not news on it in recent times.

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And the UI reskin as proposed by Jorge Avila in the same thread, what about this? What has been implemented?
Well, there was some update on that front, but the current implementation is still more of a hack. I will try to adjust the implementation, and bring into the game something based on a CEGUI skin of mine: http://www.cegui.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6006 (http://www.cegui.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6006) (but with a somewhat different look).
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 23, 2013, 08:35:15 PM
I looked into the art repo and so far I haven't found a single blend file or other source files. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

As for models I made. Those are some more recent and some of the better ones. I made a lot of really good RTS models when I was working for a game studio, but I can't show them unfortunately. Maybe these will suffice.

What do you meen with the maps must be updated? The lighting?

What can be checked as done of those?

Programming:
- Improved minimap
- stable and well-tested network
- enchanting system
- system for creating paths and streets
- terrain
- shadows (somehow) (done)
- Improve Mapgenerator (placement of templates, flexibility, interface)
- Fix translation issues
- To be discussed: Implement potion timer (I dislike that you can drink potions at arbitrary speed) (done)
- More testing and improvement for network (again ;) )

GUI/Graphics programming:
- Verification of shadows (almost surely a lot remaining work here)
- Minor improvements to GUI (like changing the close buttons)
- Visualizing of region exits
- Improvement of the timer visualization
- Hopefully: Improvement of the minimap
- Gui reskin (under way by dezGusty) (very nice GUI skin btw. That would be awesome ingame.)

Graphik:
- Icons for all skills
- improved particle systems
- support for billboards ?
- replace all placeholder graphics (what are those placeholder graphics; needs clarification; a list would be nice...)
- Integration of the all completed meshes (I dont even know how much of Psychos work is not ingame yet..) [Are there actual models or even source files of the work Psycho has done? If so, where are they? I couldn't find any]

Scripting:
- Implementation of the greengecko quests
- Hopefully: Finally start extending the story after the Lich
- all sidequests that are located before the fight against the lich
- at least one smalltalk topic for each npc

Sound, Music:
- Fill the gaps, especially with sound

Tools:
- Editor for creating new maps
- Improvement to the content integration tools

Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 23, 2013, 09:08:06 PM
First off: nice models.
I also downloaded the SVN repo and did not find .blend files. Only Maya mb files.

What can be checked as done (as far as I know): all the items that appear as "done" in the list you posted.
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replace all placeholder graphics (what are placeholder graphics; needs clarification)
We have many skill icons that are using "dummy" pictures.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: Pappe on January 23, 2013, 09:09:16 PM
There is also much work to do, to get this project running again. Most of those are, as dezGusty stated managment issues.

I propose this, you are hereby encouraged to complete this list.

Update the Wiki
- upload the new compiled version of sumwars
- remove as much stubs as possible to encourage newbies that stumble upon the wiki to read on and proceed to the forum [especcially content creation needs updates]
- generate and upload some news to show you're alive
- generate and upload up to date builds for Mac and Linux if possible
- think about a better introduction page for newbies so they become and stay interested [maybe it's fine as it is though...]

Gamedesign
- get down and brainstorm to get something like a gamedesign document going
- what are our common thoughts and hopes about what the game should be like in the end
- what are our short and long term goals
- what is the game actually about; Gameplay mechanics, balancing, that stuff
- a summary of the story that sparks interest but doesn't spoil anything


Managment
- who is still active and willing to continue
- where are we lacking [right now programming, right?]
- maybe reassign the resposebilities
- have regular devchats via irc or something similar on days where as much members as possible can attend
- get naming conventions down [maybe I haven't found where those are written?!]
- think about model conventions such as scaling and especcially polycounts [I think with todays hardware much more is possible, since polycount normally isn't the bottleneck, but too restrictive limits could deter contributers]

Advertisment of the game
- write some reviews and spread them over the net
- make some gameplay videos


Those are my suggestions for the next months. I think those are more important than developing the game itself, although those tasks are certainly more boring.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 23, 2013, 09:22:58 PM
Hello Pappe and welcome! I hope you'll stay around for some time.

I looked into the art repo and so far I haven't found a single blend file or other source files. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Unfortunately the developers all used maya as they got it for free from university. This of course bites us now. If anyone is up for the task to convert the models to blender, we'd be very grateful :)
But I wouldn't consider this as a high priority item.


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As for models I made. Those are some more recent and some of the better ones. I made a lot of really good RTS models when I was working for a game studio, but I can't show them unfortunately. Maybe these will suffice.
Would be nice to see them some time!

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What do you meen with the maps must be updated? The lighting?
Yes, look at this short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-6VUDV_5Vo
This is supposed to be underground. The maps where not build with shadows in mind, so there absolutely no lights beside the sun.

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What can be checked as done of those?
Programming:
- Improved minimap
- stable and well-tested network
...
There are some things here that are at least started. I think this list would make sense in the wiki. I'll try to migrate this list to the wiki some time this weekend.
Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: fusion44 on January 23, 2013, 09:42:05 PM
There is also much work to do, to get this project running again. Most of those are, as dezGusty stated managment issues.

I propose this, you are hereby encouraged to complete this list.

Update the Wiki
- upload the new compiled version of sumwars
- remove as much stubs as possible to encourage newbies that stumble upon the wiki to read on and proceed to the forum [especcially content creation needs updates]
- generate and upload some news to show you're alive
- generate and upload up to date builds for Mac and Linux if possible
- think about a better introduction page for newbies so they become and stay interested [maybe it's fine as it is though...]
Before we actually edit the wiki it may be a better idea to migrate to another wiki that is independent of the original developers webspace.
The webspace isn't going down anytime soon, but I'd feel safer if we had it on some big service.
I'd say that we try the bitbucket wiki (https://bitbucket.org/sumwars/sumwars-code/wiki/Home).


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Gamedesign
- get down and brainstorm to get something like a gamedesign document going
- what are our common thoughts and hopes about what the game should be like in the end
- what are our short and long term goals
- what is the game actually about; Gameplay mechanics, balancing, that stuff
- a summary of the story that sparks interest but doesn't spoil anything
Take a look at the docs folder in the source repository:
https://bitbucket.org/sumwars/sumwars-code/src/b2ba13b0d740/doc?at=default
There are already a lot of documents, unfortunately some of them in german. They need to be translated and "wikified".

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Managment
- who is still active and willing to continue
- where are we lacking [right now programming, right?]
- maybe reassign the resposebilities
- have regular devchats via irc or something similar on days where as much members as possible can attend
- get naming conventions down [maybe I haven't found where those are written?!]
- think about model conventions such as scaling and especcially polycounts [I think with todays hardware much more is possible, since polycount normally isn't the bottleneck, but too restrictive limits could deter contributers]
I'm active, unfortunately I'll be pretty busy until June this year when I finish my studies (I should be learning right now arrghh!!).
We can also hold regular hangouts on G+.

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Advertisment of the game
- write some reviews and spread them over the net
- make some gameplay videos
I'd like to record a gameplay video during a multiplayer session and create some sort of short action trailer out of it.
We have a longer story trailer somewhere since some time, I just can't find the link anymore.


Title: Re: So I'm guessing this is it then... ?
Post by: dezGusty on January 24, 2013, 11:20:19 PM
Hmm... in order to prepare the list, I suggest that we either:
a)  meet on irc and discuss the items more thoroughly (though it's not that easy to have everyone on irc at the same time)
or
b) create new threads for the short and long term goals and have everyone who's involved or wants to be involved in summoning wars add a thought or two.
(I would prefer this option).

So, I unless anyone objects, I will create 2 threads tomorrow for the short and long-term goals and ask everyone to pitch in. We'll gather input, see where we stand and how we can continue. I'll write a summary of the information that we should place in in the actual thread.