Summoning Wars Forum

Development => Graphics => Topic started by: Trilby on January 18, 2011, 11:10:27 PM

Title: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on January 18, 2011, 11:10:27 PM
So, I've returned to Blender after a long hiatus, finally getting round to trying my hand at some models for Sumwars.

I thought I'd try working on a model for some spiral stairs, the missing level transition between lvl 1 and 2 of Mylon's grave. I'm not sure what will prove feasible at the moment, nor am I too sure of the limitations of the environment graphics, for example if an object graphic can replace or cut away a floor tile?

Here's a rough idea, at the moment the upper stairs, i.e what you see approaching the way to lvl 2. In this design a floor tile would be replaced with the stair mesh, with the cave walls meant to surround all but the front. Like I say, I think this might not work, but this is the thread for me to find out what is possible.

An alternative would be to provide a stair mesh, that is seen through an archway, that could be made from a modified cave wall mesh.

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4624/spiralstairs01.th.jpg) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/spiralstairs01.jpg/)

(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7649/spiralstairs02.th.jpg) (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/spiralstairs02.jpg/)
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Lastmerlin on January 19, 2011, 05:57:10 PM
Hmm the model looks nice, but I fear we will get two issues:
1. Psycho is working on some spiral staircase as well and I dont know how much the use cases of these models overlap. If we are lucky he has done an *upward* staircase, while yours is a downward one. I will remember him once more to post some pictures on forum. The source of the problem is, that progress in mesh creating is not very well documented. I dont have a good overview too...
2. Your models needs to be placed _below_ the floor. Our current engine for the floor is very inflexible and does not removing the floor at this place. I hoped for improvement in this department since releasing 0.5, sadly nothing has happened, because I am not good enough with ogre to do something much better and nobody else joined how could do it :(
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on January 19, 2011, 06:55:53 PM
I thought that the above approach might not work, so no worries. Of course the upward stairs will not have the same problem. Any sort of downward stair is going to be tricky and limited at the moment then, therefore would likely be a place holder.

The only option, for now, would be to create an object that sat above ground, like a dias or raised platform --with the stairs cut into it (obviously this can't be walked on, only clicked on to provide the transition).

or

Modify a wall mesh with a doorway in it.

For either option it would be handy for me to  be able to import the cave wall meshes, to know what sizes to make these objects. I'm able to import the player mesh from Kalimgard's .obj file, to get relative size to the creatures. But then, it probably wouldn't work well to scale the finished object to match the environment afterward --I hope you understood that. ;)

Let's see what work Psycho has done for the stair, I may just move onto making more architecture, if he's got further with the project.


EDIT
Here's a rough concept model for the downward stairs within a raised platform/dias. Definitely not to scale, it's just been modeled quickly.

(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6076/spiralstairs03.th.jpg) (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/spiralstairs03.jpg/)
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Psycho on January 19, 2011, 11:58:00 PM
so here are a picture with all the stairs I have
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9017/treppen2.jpg) (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/treppen2.jpg/)
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on January 20, 2011, 12:38:56 AM
Nice work, far more imaginative than my own. I should pick up a pencil and sketch before I start modeling.

A couple of thoughts/questions come to mind.

Firstly, are region exits always in set places? So is it easy to have a specific model (as an exit) also be part of the wall structure, without having to worry about the random layout interfering with it?

Based on some of Psycho's ideas, there may be some imaginative workarounds, so the stairs could still look like they are descending but not actually need to cut through the floor. Although we've established that there are spiral stairs in the Mylon's grave region, all we really need are interesting looking transition objects. I like the irregular shapes here. I wonder if the actual stairs were to be positioned almost horizontally, whether they could still look as if they are descending --to some extent.

Is this your project Psycho? I don't want to get in the way.
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Lastmerlin on January 20, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
The grave levels are randomly generated regions which means, that the exit is not always at the same place. Currently, there are two ways to create exits for such regions: Option one is letting the mapgenerator create the exit. It is always on the border then and you can just walk out there. Option two is that you can place a so-called object group in the region. This is a pattern that always looks the same and that is placed by the map generator in the randomly generated environment. Almost all places that are relevant for quests (willard, brons farm, the goblin hideout,...) are such object groups. Inside such objectgroups you can also place region exits. In fact, the entrace to maylons grave already uses that technique.

On using tricks to avoid shortcomings of the current tile system: Well we have not better options, but its still a horrible hack. Perhaps I will try to make a short hack to avoid these problems. This would be a temporary solution, but if you dont put too much time into it, temporary solutions are perfectly ok.
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on January 20, 2011, 11:21:02 AM
Can the "object group" that this stair model is in, be placed so that is also part of the region wall? If so, would the size of the 'stair model' be confined by the current dimensions of the tile-able wall meshes?
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Lastmerlin on January 20, 2011, 01:01:07 PM
Nope, currently, the mapgenerator places objects groups always _inside_ the region, not at the border. Beeing able to place it at the border might be a good extension, but at the moments its not possible.
However, some walls can be part of the object group. In  the grave, these rooms with sarcophagus are made this way for instance. You could easily place  some stairs in one room instead.
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Psycho on January 20, 2011, 07:34:51 PM
@ Trilby

at the moment I work on some others projects.

so if you want , feel free to work on this one ,


btw:  tell me if you need some of this meshes
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: shirish on January 20, 2011, 09:02:09 PM
wow and wow, I really like some of the stairs done by Psycho. Its really hard to say which is the best although I really liked the top 2nd and third. I don't remember much but if Merlin's grave can have either of those for transition it would be great. I would go to Merlin's grave just to see that transition.
Title: RE: Mylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on January 22, 2011, 12:10:57 AM
@ Psycho

Thanks, I'll give this project a go. But I think there's enough info to work from, just by looking at the wireframe pics you've provided. Thanks for the above.

@ Shirish

I'm sure you meant Maylon's or Mylon's grave, not Merlin's. I think in terms of Sumwars and lead developers, he's very much alive at present. ;)
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on February 10, 2011, 11:26:16 PM
At first I was looking for an additional way to decorate a stairway model. I came up with the idea of modeling a statue, that would form part of a supporting pillar.

Originally this was going to be a statue of Avaera, however after a bit of reading I remembered that Maylon was a Zealot follower of Akeran, and therefore Avaera and all the rest are considered heretical, and would not be represented in the tomb. Oh well.

Anyway this is a Blender screenshot of the statue model so far, let me know what you think of it, whether it's worth continuing with for use elsewhere in the game.

(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/366/avaerastatue01.th.jpg) (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/avaerastatue01.jpg/)

P.S If you care to scroll on far enough through the picture album, you may find some rough sketches for some Dwarfen undead, I did a while ago.
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: kalimgard on February 11, 2011, 03:25:32 AM
Well, I'm sure we could use it, and there will be at least one temple of Avaera in the game, but right now I wouldn't know were to put it. That means: Don't throw it away, but don't put a lot of effort in it at the moment either.
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on February 15, 2011, 04:35:00 PM
I'll keep the statue project on hold for now.

I've worked on a stair/transition model. Although I suppose this could be a generic caves transition rather than a specific Maylon's grave piece.

This model is based on the longer cave wall mesh from kalimgard's .obj upload. So in theory it should line up well. The stairs would form part of an object group inside the cave region (not on the region border), along with a few other wall pieces.

Images of the model so far.

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9810/spiralstairs04.th.jpg) (http://img64.imageshack.us/i/spiralstairs04.jpg/)

(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6232/spiralstairs04b.th.jpg) (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/spiralstairs04b.jpg/)
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: Psycho on February 15, 2011, 11:08:29 PM
nice work :D
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: kalimgard on February 16, 2011, 02:37:39 PM
I like it, too :)
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: Trilby on February 16, 2011, 06:43:43 PM
In the face of better talent joining us, I'm glad you like it. Now I only need to take a crash-course on UV texturing. :rolleyes:

There's plenty of room and an existing wall texture on the cave_ambient.png, I'm going to use what I can there. I'll just add any more stair texture I make, on to that file.
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: kalimgard on February 16, 2011, 08:03:05 PM
Thats a good idea. And it makes the integration easy.
Title: RE: Maylon's stairs
Post by: Andreas on February 21, 2011, 09:44:25 AM
Hello Trilby,

I somehow totaly missed this nice asset until now. It is great and integrates very well! Do you have already found somthing for uv mapping? Otherwise I'm shure, we can arange somhow the posiibility to teach you a little bit about texturing in Skype and with teamviewer.

Thank you for your time and efford :)
Title: Re: Maylon's grave - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on October 19, 2011, 04:47:49 PM
In a way this is a continuation of the stairs project from aeons ago.  :)  Work on that model is in hiatus. UV texture issues prompted me to start modeling some interior masonry walls for Maylon's tomb instead. Working title is "buttress walls" or "Akeran walls".

I'm part way into making the textures. I've tried to go for a palette that will match the Maylon's tomb entrance model. Hopefully the walls are designed in a way to allow reuse of specific textures between each of the models. In effect these are tile-able. If these walls work out, I'll give the stairs a second attempt. After that, may be spice up the collection of walls with a few ruined sections too.

Please let me know what you think, and whether any further wall section parts are needed.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1941/buttresswalls01.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/buttresswalls01.jpg/)

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4994/buttresstextureprogress.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/buttresstextureprogress.jpg/)
Title: Re: Maylon's grave - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Psycho on October 19, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
hi trilby

1. the tex looks good to me ;D
    it's something blurred but i think it can be changed

2. wall sizes that we need:   1 x 1
                                              2 x 1
                                              4 x 1
                                              8 x 1
                  corner inside        1 x 1
                  corner outside     1 x 1

Title: Re: Maylon's grave - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on October 23, 2011, 01:07:50 AM
UV texture finished.

Unfortunately, those seams in the base are very difficult to eradicate, but at least they are disguised. This wall set appears to tile well enough. All textures here are on a single png 1024x1024. That should give you an idea of the image resolution I've been working with.

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4994/buttresstextureprogress.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/buttresstextureprogress.jpg/)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4994/buttresstextureprogress.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/buttresstextureprogress.jpg/)


And here's a construct, that shows how they can fit together...

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4994/buttresstextureprogress.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/buttresstextureprogress.jpg/)

That should contain all wall sections stated above.  :)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Psycho on October 24, 2011, 05:51:13 PM
1. very good work ( so I can remove this work from my ToDo list )  ;D ;D ;D

2. i think we need this sizes for the level editor but i´m not sure about it
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on October 26, 2011, 08:45:47 PM
Thanks, Psycho!

I've been playing around with the Blender2Ogre exporter, and made a quick hack in 0-5-4 to view the resultant meshes. Quickly swapping a single cave wall mesh for one of my own wall sections. Clearly the next stage will be creating object-groups with meshes all of the correct sizes etc.

I would be pleased to receive some advice on which files and so forth need to be created/modified to wire these models into Sumwars properly. I also noticed the Buttress wall section doesn't seem to be effected by the player light source like the other cave meshes are.

Here's a piccy.  :)

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5301/screenshot1026201108324.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/screenshot1026201108324.png/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on October 30, 2011, 07:56:53 PM
The base of my wall sections need a careful re-texture, but that's not the issue.

Excuse the trees. ;D  They make Maylon's Grave look like Tomb Raider, but I suppose that's apt.  ;) I cloned a lot of the entries within obj_templates.xml, to create a new "buttress" environment and switched to use this with Maylon's Grave lvl 1.

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/6352/screenshot1030201107312.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/screenshot1030201107312.png/)

I hadn't realised just how heavily the exported Ogre mesh refers to Blender's object origin point. So, I've been fighting to get these wall sections to join when placed by the map generator. I believe I've got their default positions lined up as well as I can. Unfortunately the outer corner runs into trouble in every instance. It's almost as if the length of each wall joining this outer corner is 0.5 section too long.

The overall symmetry is also effected. I wondered if it would be an easy thing to change: If each wall was always arranged by the map generator, to place it's largest meshes in the center of a wall, with the smaller meshes at either side? So all walls would be constructed like: 0.5, 1 , 2, 4, 2, 1, 0.5 (if you understand my meaning).


EDIT

Complete re-texture of buttress base. Also adjusted the hue and reintroduced contrasting colours to make the texture more interesting and naturalistic (i.e red and green hints). I think these walls could work well for outdoor environments too.

Also tiles well between sections.  :D

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1875/screenshot1031201102004.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/screenshot1031201102004.png/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on October 31, 2011, 07:19:43 PM
Here are the exported meshes for all buttress wall sections. Including exported material file and texture image.

UPDATED LINK BELOW
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: KroArtem on October 31, 2011, 07:24:15 PM
Hm, I really like these walls, can somebody (kalimgard or smb else) integrate this into the game? I think it is worth adding to the game.
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on November 02, 2011, 10:07:21 PM
These wall sections can now be accessed from svn. Kalimgard has very kindly wired them in, and are present at Maylon's Grave.  :D

Due to the overall depth of the mesh geometry, the joining walls for each outer corner suffered from from a few graphics problems. Overlapping faces and clipping.

The following files should correct this. Contained in the zip archive are two outer corner meshes.

buttress_wall_cOut1 -- is the new corner mesh.
buttress_wall_cOut2 --is the old mesh with a new name. This mesh should be used in manually written obj-groups, where it's placement can be specified.


EDIT: NEW LINK

http://www.box.net/shared/5ftk9xicymbcaaozck6i (http://www.box.net/shared/5ftk9xicymbcaaozck6i)

Again I've modified the meshes to resolve a second issue. Once wired in it became apparent that the ground texture used to fill the spaces at the border, was clipping the walls, due to them being set unusually far back.
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: fusion44 on November 03, 2011, 05:37:28 PM
This looks really good! I even like the tree there. I think we have to use much more clutter in the grave like little broken rocks, columns and spiderwebs :)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on April 30, 2012, 07:14:32 PM
Well, I did start to work on a few ruin-type meshes to fit with these, as well as looking into some area transition models. Time to take another go at them, I think. I will also post the working blend file at some point too.

Meanwhile, as some players may have noticed that the new walls for inside Maylon's Grave are very bright compared with the floor and border materials. Being new to converting to OGRE meshes, I didn't know how to fix this. However after looking into it again, I figured some things out. I hand edited the file produced by the exporter //share/resources/materials/scripts/Buttress_old.material

change the line: colour_op replace to colour_op modulate

You may want to alter the first few settings too, so they're not too dark! I've used the settings from cave.material

Code: [Select]
ambient 0.5 0.5 0.5 1.0
diffuse 1 1 1 1
specular 0 0 0 1
emissive 0 0 0

Here's the preview of changes:

(http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/8529/screenshot0430201207470.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/337/screenshot0430201207470.png/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: poVoq on May 08, 2012, 08:33:04 AM
Could be maybe expanded or combined with this?:

http://opengameart.org/content/3d-dungeon-tileset

It's really a pity that we don't have some sort of editor for SumWars... maybe the tiled editor showcased in the comments from the DNT project could be adapted? I really feel that easy content creation is what is holding SW back in it's current semi frozen state :-/
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on May 08, 2012, 10:52:15 PM
Thanks for posting. I had a look at those models. Although our tile sets are set up quite differently from these, I've already taken a few pointers from them. With the low-poly meshes normal mapping on those models really helps visual impact, and ideally I would like to see SumWars' models use that extra level of detail too. I'm assuming we don't have that functionality with the OGRE materials yet?

Currently I'm looking to make a few more tile sets for different environments. As most of the regions are outdoors, I think I may concentrate on varying the types of exterior region walls that we have.
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: fusion44 on May 09, 2012, 05:27:52 PM
Hey all :)

The problem with normal maps is that not all of our models have them!
I think they'll look very out of place compared to the other models without normal maps.

Programming wise its hard to do them right. You have to take into account that some people won't have graphics chips that can render them fast enough and some can't do them at all.

About the editor, I've started an editor but I don't have enough time at the moment to complete it, but its not dead yet!
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on May 16, 2012, 07:53:57 PM
As it turns out, I have a lot to learn about making a good looking normal map. Maybe it's just the basic texture or my ineptitude, but the buttress walls didn't transfer well judging by Blender internal.

Anyway.

This picture is from the first in game test of a new ruined wall mesh for the "vault" environment. I need to finish texture mapping and adding extra details like tree roots. From this test the ruined section didn't block a corridor yet --but I may have to watch out for that.

(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6249/screenshot0516201207451.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/screenshot0516201207451.png/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on May 22, 2012, 03:34:38 PM
This .zip archive adds the ruined wall section to the vault environment used in Maylon's Grave. I've set up the files in their respective directories, so everything should be in place, including the xml files to properly wire in the ruin-mesh, including an updated materials script so the all vault walls appear to react to the player light-source.

(Note: This will add new files and overwrite/update older ones)

Please give this a try and let me know what you think, and whether you would like to see more pieces added to the vault environment.

https://www.box.com/s/ef9173ffb036bbb66fcd

You should end up with something like this  :)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2889/screenshot0522201203190.th.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/screenshot0522201203190.png/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Trilby on May 28, 2012, 07:42:33 PM
Now working on a set of additional walls for use in Maylon's Grave. These should hopefully update the current Council wall tileset, for a version that looks older and will not look too out of place alongside the Buttress meshes. In this way we can still see that the location is related to the Council of Summoners.

(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/2897/councilwallsoldblender0.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/councilwallsoldblender0.jpg/)
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Jorge Avila on May 28, 2012, 09:16:25 PM
Good idea trilby! =D They look good =D

Hoping to see in the game! :D
Title: Re: Buttress walls - Trilby's scenic projects
Post by: Lastmerlin on May 30, 2012, 08:54:04 PM
Very good work Trilby. I am also pleased to see, that you also provide the XML files for the integration as well. Apparently, the format is not that complicated as fusions claims after all :P
As I see it, all that is left to do is changing the environment to vault for the appropriate regions.