Summoning Wars Forum

Development => Graphics => Topic started by: poVoq on July 20, 2010, 11:09:46 PM

Title: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on July 20, 2010, 11:09:46 PM
IMHO I think you could instantly and greatly improve the look of this game by re-utilizing some of the art assets from the 0AD project:
http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/

The mesh structure and texture resolution is high enough that even after a small rescale it would still look very good in game, and since all the assets are under the "Creative Commons Share Alike" license it would be a perfectly legal (and actually encouraged) reuse of art assets. And since it's a completely different game type, everyone benefits!

You will still have to think about your licensing policy however:
http://www.sumwars.org/module/forum/showthread.php?tid=28
Since otherwise there might be incompatibilities with the Share Alike option.

If you need help with converting those, I would be willing to look into that too!

P.S.: No, your game will not look like a 0AD clone afterwards :p
Title: RE: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on August 14, 2010, 05:39:18 PM
I still think this is a good idea ;)

Oh and this model:
http://opengameart.org/content/goth-female-fleur-du-mal

could be used for a good arch villain, or something like that.

You really shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel for everything... where it is possible reuse of assets is a really good way of making a good game in a much shorter time!
Title: RE: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: Lastmerlin on August 14, 2010, 06:10:41 PM
Hmm sorry, somehow I missed this thread.
In general, reusing artwork is a good idea, just because it increases our pool of graphics. But there are a few things we should check first:
- Does it meet our requirements ? To be precise, we need the original modelling data from a modelling program that supports export to OGRE meshes.
- Does it fit into our current set of artwork
- are the licenses compatible

Moreover, I think we should at least notify the 0AD people and ask them again, if they are ok with a reuse of their art. The point is that we should also respect the intentions of the artists what should happen with their art - this does not always the match the chosen license, especially when dealing with people who are absolutely not interested in this legal stuff (like me). When releasing the whole work as GPL I agreed, that everyone can take out any parts of the code or fork the project as long as they do it under GPL restrictions. However, I can imagine several (for me) wildly different scenarios (although legally equivalent): If someone reuses some of my engines, I'd be really honored, I would be not to happy if someone forks the whole project and I'd be really pissed if he does so without notifying me and in worst case pretending pretending that is was his work.
Title: RE: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on August 15, 2010, 11:26:00 AM
Yes, I agree.

That's why I mentioned in the first post that they would probably not mind since it is such a vastly different project. But asking doesn't hurt.

The stuff from 0AD is in the collada format btw, which can be imported into Blender and exported from there into the ogre format with out much problems.

Concerning license compatibility... well you have still not chosen a consistent media license for your project, so it's hard to tell :p
The CC-BY-SA 0AD uses is a good license though, which you could also adopt.
Title: RE: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: Lastmerlin on August 17, 2010, 10:09:04 PM
The license question is sorted, but integrating external content is still work. More precisely, three things need to be done:
1. Choosing the content
2. Transforming the content into the format we use
3. Integrating it into the game

For the last point, we have already some guides in the subsections. In addition, Kalimgard or I could assist there. Between the second and the third point it would be a good idea to post samples /screenshots on the forum to discuss the quality and where to utilize the stuff.

Do you want to help to work on that ?
Title: RE: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on August 18, 2010, 12:35:48 PM
Basically yes, but I will be really busy the next 2 weeks, so don't really expect anything before that. Oh and it's a bit annoying that there isn't a Blender 2.5 Ogre exporter yet.

Anyways, I think the things that could really be used are the plants/trees and such. They look quite nice and will probably scale to a game with a closer camera. The animals might be a bit too low-poly and they ain't got very good animations.
Maybe one could also have a look at their terrain textures (when the 2.5D terrain is implemented in SW), but I think they might be a bit to close to the photo source to really fit into this game.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 18, 2012, 11:17:56 PM
So, has this been considered?

I think it would significantly enhance the graphics of SumWars, while giveing the chance to have a nice colaboration between the two projects.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: Lastmerlin on March 19, 2012, 10:57:42 PM
Well the central problem currently is, that we have no really active graphic content integrator. Getting existing graphical content into the game is an extra step that requires that some specific specification (in XML) is written, that links the graphical content to ingame objects. While this is rather easy (at least for static objects), its still the weak link in the chain currently. I have to find someone for this. Unfortunately its also rather unrewarding work, because there is really no creativity in it and hardly anybody is aware, that this step in the workflow even exists.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 19, 2012, 11:06:04 PM
I assume you are referring to the last part of this:
http://sumwars.org/forum/index.php?topic=91.0

However I don't think this is easy for a non programmer to understand...

Maybe you can give us a better explaination so that someone can try it?
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 19, 2012, 11:43:30 PM
Ok did some research:

To get the collada files and textures from 0AD (I am currently cloning the SVN on my PC)
http://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/TortoiseSVN_Guide

To fix the Blender import of the collada files:
Code: [Select]
1) Open the DAE file in Notepad
2) Find the line <diffuse>
3) Delete the entire <diffuse> element. It will look something like this:

                        <diffuse>
                          <texture texture="Map__123-image" texcoord="CHANNEL0">
                                <extra>
                                  <technique profile="MAYA">
                                        <wrapU sid="wrapU0">TRUE</wrapU>
                                        <wrapV sid="wrapV0">TRUE</wrapV>
                                        <blend_mode>ADD</blend_mode>
                                  </technique>
                                </extra>
                          </texture>
                        </diffuse>


(Delete everything from <diffuse> to </diffuse>)
4) Save the file (don't change the DAE format)
5) In Blender 2.5x import the DAE file you've just saved using the importer - File > Import > Collada (.dae)

Get the latest OGRE3D exporter fpr Blender 2.6 here:
http://www.ogre3d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61485
http://code.google.com/p/blender2ogre/


Now I am not saying that I will do it ;) But I will have a look. I think the celtic set would be a good start as a set for SumWars... but nearly everything is usable for outdoor maps.

Edit: GIMP .dds plugin: http://code.google.com/p/gimp-dds/ to open some of the textures from 0AD (on Ubuntu it is in the repository)
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: Lastmerlin on March 19, 2012, 11:54:18 PM
Well, meshview is also somewhat outdated. I started to work on a tool that allows integration of objects via an ingame-gui. It already works for static objects quite easily. Overall, its really unfinished though. The idea was exactly, that content integration is one of our really weak points.
Unfortunately, here my very limited time kicks in again :(
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 20, 2012, 12:03:36 AM
Well it would be only static meshes (houses, plants, props)

Just tell us how it is currently done and I will try it.

Really looking forward to a sort of editor though... is there really nothing in the OGRE3D world that could be repurposed for SumWars as an editor?
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 21, 2012, 09:28:55 PM
Ok, getting the art into a 3D editing program for easy export to SumWars works with relatively little work involved:
(http://i.imgur.com/OEEsT.png)
(two sample buildings without extra detail props from the celtic civilisation)

Texture resolution and mesh quality is good enough for the closer viewpoint in SumWars.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: dezGusty on March 22, 2012, 07:21:44 AM
Woa, if this is the way it looks in-game, it's quite good. I like it, although it may exceed a bit the recommended poly-count.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: fusion44 on March 22, 2012, 07:12:43 PM
Maybe we could automate the conversation using http://code.google.com/p/ogreassimp/

Its based on http://assimp.sourceforge.net which can load Collada files.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 22, 2012, 07:17:05 PM
Looks higher poly than it is... keep in mind this was made for a RTS originally. And yes, this is pretty much how it will look. Sadly it doesn't come with a bump-map or such, then it would look even better. But we could make ones in the long run and feed them back to the 0AD team also.

About the automation... I think if it is done civ set by set it is something that doesn't take all that long (unless the SumWars integration takes long)... so no need to try to automate it. Afterall it has to be done only once more or less.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 24, 2012, 10:00:51 PM
Ok, I have transferred about 90% of the relevant celtic buildings into .blend files ready for ORGE3D export.
It's quite amazing how all these different buildings basically only use one single texture (which comes in two versions, one with snow and one without).

Next I need to figure out how to get them into SumWars (which seems to be the hard part?).

Btw: There are actually some coastal buildings and a lot of nice looking ships that could be used as props... does SumWars have the ability to add water to the levels? Probably not, right (as it is all flat currently)?

I will probably also convert all the "nordic" vegetation from 0 A.D. so that together with the celtic civ set we have a nice "viking" themed set for SumWars.
However we really need some sort of terrain implementation, since without the nice blended ground textures from 0 A.D. everything will look really out of place on the green flat ground :(
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: fusion44 on March 25, 2012, 11:23:12 AM
Hi poVoq!

I've made two videos showing how to export from Blender to Ogre and into sumwars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jcjz9iNHjI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fddNclbNkts

Look at the description of the first video for links to the exporter.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask :)
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 25, 2012, 01:46:41 PM
Ahh, thanks! I had seen these a while ago I think, but couldn't remember where.

But in general I assume that the second part will no be necessary once we have a proper world editor?
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: fusion44 on March 25, 2012, 02:33:17 PM
It will still be necessary since the world editor will not include it, least initially. I'm not sure at the moment how to go about this.
Ogitor is a pretty heavy dependency and someone who wants to contribute a model will be forced to use it then, which is not good.
On the other hand I want to avoid code duplication. Well, will see the editor is still a long way off.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on March 25, 2012, 04:12:46 PM
Hmm, but what good is a OGRE mesh without a way to integrate it in the game? I mean it's nice to be able to preview it in the game... but most likely anyone contributing a model will also open a world map and integrate it via a editor, right? Either that, or he/she will be happy to just hand an exported .mesh file over to someone who can integrate it.

But maybe I am getting this totally wrong ;)

P.S.: Argg those overly complicated material settings from Blender... if you just want to add a alpha transparency diffuse texture as for most games it makes everything a pain to set up :(
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: Trilby on May 23, 2012, 08:25:21 PM
Hello poVoq

Would you be able to provide a repo or otherwise upload these converted meshes? I wouldn't mind trying my hand at integrating these for local build and see how they look. I've done a small amount of work with the xml files on the data side before. In lieu of an editor I have been motivated to look into integrating meshes manually.
Title: Re: Use of 0AD plants, scrubs, animals and buildings?
Post by: poVoq on May 26, 2012, 11:51:15 PM
They have recently updated the walls... I will get those too, fix a few last things and then try to get them uploaded somewhere. Watch this spot, I will probably find the time to do it this sunday or the day after.

Edit: maybe by the end of the week... was busy with other stuff this weekend :-/